take a stand

Originally posted by FMF
I acknowledge that you find "purpose and meaning" in life in having convinced yourself that there is an "afterlife".

Why do you think I care what you acknowledge? I find it odd.

Originally posted by FMF
Yes it is. Don't be so silly. It's an example of what the words "religious belief" mean in the English language. Your religious beliefs, no matter how sincere or vehement, cannot change what the words mean.

Your head is in a religious box. Try to open your mind and imagine that not everything spiritual is religious.

Words are vehicles used to convey ideas, thoughts and concepts related to a particular thing, usually something tangible, but some ideas, thoughts and concepts are intangible, and are related to things spiritual.

Religion is a system of rites, rituals and practices related to things one can sense physically, but faith has as its object a living spiritual being.

That's the key to understanding the difference between faith and religion. You can "see" religion, but you can't "see" the invisible God. So therefore those of us that are of faith have as the object of our faith God's Christ. Free of temporal religious constraints.

Originally posted by josephw
Faith in God, and God's Christ, is singularly exclusive.

No matter how strong your belief in this is, it does not alter the meaning of the words "religion" and "religious" as they pertain to the belief in and worship of a supernatural being that created and has power over the world and humanity.

Originally posted by josephw
Try to open your mind and imagine that not everything spiritual is religious.

I have never suggested that "everything spiritual is religious". In fact I have posted many times over the years to put forward the view that "not everything spiritual is religious" and, indeed, that not everything spiritual is concerned with supernatural things.

Originally posted by josephw
Religion is a system of rites, rituals and practices related to things one can sense physically, but faith has as its object a living spiritual being..

Religion is what your Christian system of beliefs and worship is. Yours is one of the three Abrahamic religions and the supernatural being that you believe in and worship is defined by your religion's "holy" scriptures.

Originally posted by josephw
That's the key to understanding the difference between faith and religion.

I haven't been talking about the definition of "faith". I have been talking about how you are seeking to distort the plain and uncontroversial meaning of the word "religion" for ideological reasons rooted in your religious beliefs.

Originally posted by josephw
So therefore those of us that are of faith have as the object of our faith God's Christ.

Hence the use of the word "religious" ~ to describe beliefs like the one you have expressed above.

Originally posted by FMF
I have never suggested that "everything spiritual is religious". In fact I have posted many times over the years to put forward the view that "not everything spiritual is religious" and, indeed, that not everything spiritual is concerned with supernatural things.

It is the object of faith that defines the terms. If you insist on defining the terms yourself, then that makes you the object of your faith.

Therein lies your error.

Originally posted by josephw
It is the object of faith that defines the terms. If you insist on defining the terms yourself, then that makes you the object of your faith.

The belief and worship of a god or gods is what prompts the use of the words "religious" and religion" and their application to the set of beliefs you subscribe to. This definition is not something I have 'done myself'; they are words I am using correctly because I am a native speaker of English.

Originally posted by FMF
The belief and worship of a god or gods is what prompts the use of the words "religious" and religion" and their application to the set of beliefs you subscribe to. This definition is not something I have 'done myself'; they are words I am using correctly because I am a native speaker of English.

And when you acknowledge the one that made your tongue then you'll understand the Truth. In the meanwhile you'll just keep chattering away aimlessly about words to no effect.

Without Truth you'll wither away in spite of all the "meaning and purpose" you cling to.

Originally posted by josephw
And when you acknowledge the one that made your tongue then you'll understand the Truth. In the meanwhile you'll just keep chattering away aimlessly about words to no effect.

Your ideology-driven attempt to distort the actual meaning of words is perhaps a textbook example of "chattering away aimlessly".

Originally posted by josephw

Otherwise this life has no purpose or meaning aside from living according to a self induced criteria and our certain demise.

Yep, that's pretty much it.

Originally posted by Eladar
Why do you think I care what you acknowledge? I find it odd.

I acknowledge that you find it odd.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Yep, that's pretty much it.

Not really. On the surface it sounds rather dismal. There needs to be more than just "meaning and purpose" in life. There needs to be hope. A hope that transcends temporal existence. One can have meaning and purpose in doing good, loving his or her family, country, job, home, etc., etc., etc., but then to what avail is meaning and purpose if there's no lasting value in it beyond this life?

Originally posted by josephw
Not really. On the surface it sounds rather dismal. There needs to be more than just "meaning and purpose" in life. There needs to be hope. A hope that transcends temporal existence. One can have meaning and purpose in doing good, loving his or her family, country, job, home, etc., etc., etc., but then to what avail is meaning and purpose if there's no lasting value in it beyond this life?

So you recommend that, in order to feel "hope", people should tell themselves and each other that there is some sort of existence beyond this life? Do they have to actually believe it?