20 Apr 11
Originally posted by Agergyes they are unsubstatiated pure and utter bumf, you called for the references, now
As others have shown, this game goes along the lines of looking at these references, pointing out that they could have been `written true' afterwards, and/or fail to specifically mention Jesus such that they could have been matched to any number of different people - and then you come along and call these objections unsubstantiated bumf.
Show us some exce ...[text shortened]... n we can look at the rest of this tripe and see if they weren't 'written true' afterwards.
you have been given them and you proffer what in return, super hyper bumf. Lets
see what has transpired so far,
twithead claims the 'obvious', either the events themselves were engineered or that
persons knew of the prophesies themselves and engineered their writing before
hand, evidence absolute zero! the centre of a black hole of a doughnut! It has been
shown not only to be unlikely that entire nations effected by prophecy could have
been engineered, but that that in he case of events it extremely improbable, for
example the crucifixion itself and its details or being born in Bethlehem. That it
could have matched any number of different people is also bogus, for it has been
shown, that through his lineage, through his place of birth, through the works that he
achieved it could have been none other than the Christ. Indeed , it is well known
that many messiahs stepped forth in Israel, yet only one remains, the Christ,
making the claim demonstrably false!
Let it be known throughout the spirituality forum Agers has not produced one
credible reference, not one substantiated claim, not one iota of testimony to the
contrary that either Christ was the Messiah or that prophecy is sure proof of
inspiration. Let it be known!
20 Apr 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo we explain how the fabricated nonsense in your Bible could easily have been rendered true by later authors and then you call our arguments unsubstantiated?
yes they are unsubstatiated pure and utter bumf, you called for the references, now
you have been given them and you proffer what in return, super hyper bumf. Lets
see what has transpired so far,
twithead claims the 'obvious', either the events themselves were engineered or that
persons knew of the prophesies themselves and engineered thei ...[text shortened]... ther Christ was the Messiah or that prophecy is sure proof of
inspiration. Let it be known!
This thread is a joke 😵
20 Apr 11
Originally posted by PenguinPenguin you are the most honourable of the forces of Atheism, it is refreshing to hear
Fair enough, the Bethlehem city/tribe argument is a bit weak, I will accept that.
The Joshua / Jesus complaint was also nit-picking but if both names have similar meanings. They are still different though so I don't think it is entirely invalid. The important bit of that prophesy is the virgin birth and we have no reliable evidence that such an event happ ...[text shortened]... eader (albeit spiritual rather than political/military) was born in that town.
--- Penguin.
you speak in these terms, the murders of the innocents shall be addressed, for what
we know is that its well within Herods character to perpetrate such a scheme!
20 Apr 11
Originally posted by Agergnope your lack of anything contrary to the claims of scripture is a joke, at least penguin
So we explain how the fabricated nonsense in your Bible could easily have been rendered true by later authors and then you call our arguments unsubstantiated?
This thread is a joke 😵
is prepared to admit the weakness of his arguments, but then again, hes the only one
from the forces of atheism that has tried to proffer a credible argument, all you have
done is strut around like professor yattle the carved wooden bookend from bagpuss
and claim of the mice and the mice organ that magic doesn't happen.
20 Apr 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou have offered us nothing than a collection of fragmented references that could *easily* be identified with characters other than Jesus, and could *easily* have been written true or engineered true by later authors or people.
nope your lack of anything contrary to the claims of scripture is a joke, at least penguin
is prepared to admit the weakness of his arguments, but then again, hes the only one
from the forces of atheism that has tried to proffer a credible argument, all you have
done is strut around like professor yattle the carved wooden bookend from bagpuss
and claim of the mice and the mice organ that magic doesn't happen.
I know you set low standards for evidence and proof, and it's ok - you're a JW, it comes with the territory. We atheists however need something a little bit stronger ;]
20 Apr 11
As I said in my other thread, why don't you offer us
excerpts from the Bible that specifically mention the character "Jesus" (no, not *a messiah* who could be pattern matched to any poor sap, I want "Jesus" ), proven to have been penned prior to his supposed birth, that lay out the specifics of how this person yet to be born is going to die - nothing wishy washy I want unambiguous details, and yes I will check to see if these accounts were written *after* the supposed event.
Then present evidence this event actually occured in the manner which the Bible describes, without being arranged by people who had already read about this 'prophecy'.
20 Apr 11
Originally posted by Agergfragmented references? they are found in the scripture, strange how a number of
You have offered us nothing than a collection of fragmented references that could *easily* be identified with characters other than Jesus, and could *easily* have been written true or engineered true by later authors or people.
I know you set low standards for evidence and proof, and it's ok - you're a JW, it comes with the territory. We atheists however need something a little bit stronger ;]
fragmented references, written by different others, over differing epochs could all
point to one personage, the Christ, that is without inspiration, funny that, now how do
you explain it? evidence for your claims of engineering, zilch, centre of the worlds
largest doughnut and a veritable vacuous region! we have now by my reckoning given
sixteen Biblical references, none of which you have managed to satisfactorily
rationalise away, I mean you might make at least one attempt, say the destruction of
Babylon, that it would never be inhabited, how do you rationalise that away dear
Agers, do tell, is it just another coincidence? a fluke of nature that its never been
rebuilt, what heresy and make it up as you go along atheism will you apply in its
instance, do tell.
20 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut they don't point to "Jesus"...any idiot can back up any other number of idiots who write about some magical flying horse - it then just takes one chump (having read what others wrote about magic horses) to write about a magic horse called Lucy and suddenly, by your reasoning, all of these idiots were talking about Lucy!!! 😵
fragmented references? they are found in the scripture, strange how a number of
fragmented references, written by different others, over differing epochs could all
point to one personage, the Christ, that is without inspiration, funny that, now how do
you explain it? evidence for your claims of engineering, zilch, centre of the worlds
larges ...[text shortened]... t, what heresy and make it up as you go along atheism will you apply in its
instance, do tell.
20 Apr 11
Originally posted by Agergthey dont point to Jesus, evidence nil, references nil, reasoning nil, content nil, you see
But they don't point to "Jesus"...any idiot can back up any other number of idiots who write about some magical flying horse - it then just takes one chump to write that this magic horse was called lucy and suddenly all of these idiots were talking about lucy!!! 😵
dear Agers, why should we take your word for it, its not that we are more sceptical
than others, simply that we prefer broadsheets to tabloids, you know something we
can read besides the cartoon pages.
20 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell then for the third time now, please present us with
they dont point to Jesus, evidence nil, references nil, reasoning nil, content nil, you see
dear Agers, why should we take your word for it, its not that we are more sceptical
than others, simply that we prefer broadsheets to tabloids, you know something we
can read besides the cartoon pages.
excerpts from the Bible that specifically mention the character "Jesus" (no, not *a messiah* who could be pattern matched to any poor sap, I want "Jesus" ), proven to have been penned prior to his supposed birth, that lay out the specifics of how this person yet to be born is going to die - nothing wishy washy I want unambiguous details, and yes I will check to see if these accounts were written *after* the supposed event.
Then present evidence this event actually occured in the manner which the Bible describes, without being arranged by people who had already read about this 'prophecy'.
Otherwise you're asking for evidence something didn't exist and well...we can just appeal to the fact there is not one shred of evidence to support it's existence and so we should dismiss it.
Show me evidence Gandalf didn't exist before he remade the world please.
20 Apr 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieand I'll say it again because you missed the point first time round:
they dont point to Jesus, evidence nil, references nil, reasoning nil, content nil, you see
dear Agers, why should we take your word for it, its not that we are more sceptical
than others, simply that we prefer broadsheets to tabloids, you know something we
can read besides the cartoon pages.
any idiot can back up any other number of idiots who write about some magical flying horse - it then just takes one chump (having read what others wrote about magic horses) to write about a magic horse called Lucy and suddenly, by your reasoning, all of these idiots were talking about Lucy!!! 😵
20 Apr 11
2 edits
Originally posted by Agergill say it again seeing that you missed it the first time, you have proffered no
and I'll say it again because you missed the point first time round:
any idiot can back up any other number of idiots who write about some magical flying horse - it then just takes one chump (having read what others wrote about magic horses) to write about a magic horse called Lucy and suddenly, by your reasoning, all of these idiots were talking about Lucy!!! 😵
evidence, no references, no content, absolutely nil, and here you are making
references about idiots this and idiots that, Agers, will you please post something with
content, you have proffered nothing, its absolutely empty and deviod, and the more
this is drawn to your attention the less and less credible your arguments, or in this
instance, lack of, becomes apparent.
20 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut again you're missing the point - the point being that the structure of my rebuttal about magic horses matches the structure of your Christ prophecies. Your arguments are flawed, I and many others are showing you *how* they are flawed.
ill say it again seeing that you missed it the first time, you have proffered no
evidence, no references, no content, absolutely nil, and here you are making
references about idiots this and idiots that, Agers, will you please post something with
content, you have proffered nothing, its absolutely empty and deviod, and the more
this is drawn ...[text shortened]... on the less and less credible your arguments, or in this
instance, lack of, becomes apparent.
Indeed the only thing that counts as content in your view is stuff which supports your argument -go figure! 😵