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@ghost-of-a-duke saidNo, I think you’re just lying about not seeing Kevin Eleven’s post.
Am I my brother's keeper?
@avalanchethecat saidIn the specific case of this Dennis Nilsen it appears that he lacked a healthy sex life, and possibly had other issues. (Keep in mind that sex is a crazy-powerful instinct baked into every life form). He was really not that much different from all the millions of other people with crazy fetishes and compulsions, except that he took it to an extreme. Even a physically healthy mind can be twisted and bent.
Of course. As it happens, I agree with you, but for the sake of the argument; which of these causes would you think applied to Neilson? Certainly you could find countless others with similar backgrounds, none of whom felt compelled to murder and partially consume their fellow men. What in him was different? He certainly seems to embody evil, do you not think?
I'll give you a different example: People used to burn innocent girls alive, with bystanders thinking it was all normal. Were those people possessed by 'evil', or were they doing 'good' because they believed they were cleansing the girl's evil souls?
15 Apr 21
@bunnyknight saidMany, many people lack a healthy sex life, and many of them have other issues to boot. As I said though, it's not often they set about murdering and eating people.
In the specific case of this Dennis Nilsen it appears that he lacked a healthy sex life, and possibly had other issues. (Keep in mind that sex is a crazy-powerful instinct baked into every life form). He was really not that much different from all the millions of other people with crazy fetishes and compulsions, except that he took it to an extreme. Even a physically h ...[text shortened]... y 'evil', or were they doing 'good' because they believed they were cleansing the girl's evil souls?
Are you talking about burning 'witches' at the stake? I don't quite understand how this supports the position that evil doesn't exist.
15 Apr 21
@avalanchethecat saidThe point is, if you're looking for evil as some mysterious energy, your imagination will find it everywhere, depending on your definition of evil. It's simply pointless because it distracts you from tackling the true causes.
Many, many people lack a healthy sex life, and many of them have other issues to boot. As I said though, it's not often they set about murdering and eating people.
Are you talking about burning 'witches' at the stake? I don't quite understand how this supports the position that evil doesn't exist.
People do things that hurt other people, it's that simple. How to prevent this is another far more complex problem. Every day we are creating new sociopaths, killers and damaged people because our civilization is sick and out of balance. Instead of learning from nature we fight nature. Instead of collecting all the bits of past wisdom, we erase and forget it. And worst of all, we allow criminally insane sociopaths to run our governments.
In the case of the burning of girls while the onlookers cheered, I find that far more 'evil' than any single psycho killer. And that's the sort of horror that can result from a flawed belief system that's completely out of touch with nature and logic.
16 Apr 21
1 edit
@bunnyknight saidI couldn't have put it better myself. I'm still not absolutely sure that there aren't some people who are just wrong in some undefinable way, but yes, I agree, the concept of good-vs-evil really doesn't help in tackling these issues.
The point is, if you're looking for evil as some mysterious energy, your imagination will find it everywhere, depending on your definition of evil. It's simply pointless because it distracts you from tackling the true causes.
People do things that hurt other people, it's that simple. How to prevent this is another far more complex problem. Every day we are creating ...[text shortened]... or that can result from a flawed belief system that's completely out of touch with nature and logic.
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16 Apr 21
@sonship saidWhy so priests rape young boys?
Ghost, FMF, and avalanchethecat are three atheists on the Forum.
I invite them here to explain why all men and women too often CANNOT carry out the good that they know to do or CANNOT stop the evil that they know they should not do.
Get ready for their wisdom.
Go fellas.
Why do human beings commit things against their conscience and fail to resist what their conscience does not approve of?
FMF, why don't you take the lead to guide the readers why?
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16 Apr 21
@sonship saidNo, no, it was Witness Less himself who said Christianity had become an organization of Satan.
You must not have been around here too often.
If some Christians speak anything about segments of historical Christianity being corrupted we are condemned as being sectarian. Just ask the two atheists Ghost of a Duke and FMF.
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16 Apr 21
7 edits
You see trev33?
If a concerned and caring Christian leader like A. W. Tozar or Andrew Murrey or Witness Lee speaks something to rescue Christians from degradation this is seized upon by some critics. Then those frank and honest words of love are selected among thousands of other words and held up as sectarian and unloving.
So when you point out the corruptions of the clerical system any Christian trying to address the degradation may be painted as sectarian and mean spirited. So it is a difficult thing to touch without being misunderstood.
Sometimes the "misunderstanding" is welcomed and sought out.
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16 Apr 21
@sonship saidWitness Lee sought to throw the Christian baby out with the bathwater and replace it with a 4 in one deity.
You see trev33?
If a concerned and caring Christian leader like A. W. Tozar or Andrew Murrey or Witness Lee speaks something to rescue Christians from degradation this is seized upon by some critics. Then those frank and honest words of love are selected among thousands of other words and held up as sectarian and unloving.
So when you point out the corruptions of th ...[text shortened]... touch without being misunderstood.
Sometimes the "misunderstanding" is welcomed and sought out.
@trev33 saidThe reason of this is that the perpetrator is convinced that there are little or no consequences for their actions. The Catholic Church promoted a full range of false doctrines like, buying your way out of damnation or purgatory, or that their names are written in the book of life and cannot be removed, or that they are saints of God can and will be forgiven all future sins.
Why so priests rape young boys?
More recently Martin Luther promoted the doctrine of that once a profession of faith is made the person is saved eternally, can continue to sin and cannot lose their eternal life. In fact they are convinced they have eternal life already and not even God can revoke this status.
All of that are the reasons for the decline in the morality of church elders and leaders. These churches have abandoned the teachings of Christ and now follow the teachings of men.
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16 Apr 21
3 edits
@ghost-of-a-duke saidBrother Witness Lee taught that every single human being who has ever been regenerated will one day be a part of the New Jerusalem no matter to what level they may have been damaged by religion.
Witness Lee sought to throw the Christian baby out with the bathwater and replace it with a 4 in one deity.
That would include any one of us backslidden or caught up in degraded Christianity or lost in what could be called Babylon.
Let me repeat that to you because you have thrown out not only the baby with the bathwater but the entire bathtub too, atheist.
Witness Lee taught that no Christian who has been reborn will fail to be fully conformed to the image of Christ and be a constituent in that final eternal city New Jerusalem.
Witness Lee taught that the greatest prophecy in the whole Bible is Matthew 16:18.
" . . . I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."
But he said that the gates of Hades certainly would try.
You're unbelievably ignorant on what Witness Lee spoke and taught as a whole.
@sonship saidThere it is. The doctrine of deluded fools. Sin all you can while you are alive because you die you go to heaven.
Brother Witness Lee taught that every single human being who has ever been regenerated will one day be a part of the New Jerusalem no matter to what level they may have been damaged by religion.
That would include any one of us backslidden or caught up in degraded Christianity or lost in what could be called Babylon.