Spirituality
16 Jan 15
25 Jan 15
1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipThe scripture says God stretched out the heavens. Where does it say God stretched time? It appears you are accepting the vain imaginations of man (the atheist evolutionist) over the revealed word of God.The fact that the universe is so big is just evidence that God stretched out the heavens as is recorded in the Holy Bible and testifies to tjhe power and glory of God the creator.
And if the universe stretches timewise back further than it is hard to imagine, the very same is true.
In fact we have to take on faith in God's ...[text shortened]... His work of restoration and further creation. I do not have to be a Darwinist and believe this.
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(Romans 1:21 KJV)
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
(2 Corinthians 10.5 KJV)
I did not say I do not make some assumptions. I said I try to keep them to a minimum and not let vain imaginations overcome the knowledge of the revealed word of God. The approximate 6,000 years old earth can be calculated from scripture. It is not an exact calcultion but it is close enough that we know the earth is not millions or billions of years old.
Since God has not revealed every detail, when evolutionists speculate on things that attempt to turn the truth of scipture into a lie, then apologetic speculation may be necessary to dismantle the lie.
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Originally posted by RJHinds
The scripture says God stretched out the heavens. Where does it say God stretched time? It appears you are accepting the vain imaginations of man (the atheist evolutionist) over the revealed word of God.
I don't have to find a passage that says God stretched out time.
I can see that time is "stretched out" and very likely "stretched out" more than what you say I have to believe.
Where's the verse saying a Behemoth was on the ark?
Where's the verse saying the Leviathan was on the ark?
Where's the verse saying the speed of light has changed?
Where's the verse saying the verse saying Noah manufactured pitch?
Where's the verse saying a lizard left alive for 900 years would become giant?
Where's the verse saying any number of such things maintained by some YECs?
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(Romans 1:21 KJV)
Romans 1:21 is not a rebuke to anyone who believes Isaiah 45:18.
Romans 1:21 is not a rebuke to anyone who realizes that the word for "was" in Genesis 1:2 - "And the earth was without form and void" is used in the same way in which it is used to speak of Lot's wife being turned into a pillar of salt in Genesis 19:26
"But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt." (Genesis 19:26)
And since I both acknowledge God as Creator and give thanks to Him it is not a rebuke to me. Neither is it a rebuke to me for seeing an interval of an unknown amount of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
That is bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. It is not the bring every thought to the obedience of Henry Morris or Ken Ham or ICR or "Answers in Genesis."
Since God has not revealed every detail, when evolutionists speculate on things that attempt to turn the truth of scripture into a lie, then apologetic speculation may be necessary to dismantle the lie.
One is not automatically an evolutionist to believe Isaiah 45:18 or that the word became could properly be used in both Genesis 1:2 as it is in Genesis 19:26.
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Originally posted by RJHinds
The Text does not say the creation of the heavens and the earth was completed and the earth became damaged. The clear reading of scripture indicates that the heavens and earth were not finished at the end of the first day and that accounted for its condition at that time.
Many people have died in the sea and others, like Osama Bin Laden, have died on land and buried at sea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRl8x_3EPpg
Many people have died in the sea and others, like Osama Bin Laden, have died on land and buried at sea.
Osama Bin Laden is in Hades.
All humans who died are in Hades.
Regardless of whether humans were buried or where they were buried, their immaterial part is in Hades.
Look again - "And the SEA gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them' and they were judged, each of them, according to their works." (Rev. 20:13)
The humans will be judged. The Demons of unknown intelligence from another age will also be judged.
If the Bible was just speaking of where they were buried it could have also mentioned other places where dead humans beings ended up -
In the desert without a grave or
In a swamp without a grave or
In a tar pit without a grave or
As ashes without a grave or
In for that matter blown up in a space shuttle.
Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire to indicate that these temporary prisons of the DEAD are no longer needed.
And the Sea is no more, arguably indicating the preadamic holding place of demonic spirits are also no longer needed.
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and the sea is no more." (Rev. 21:1)
In the new heaven and new earth we are told of abolished things which will be no more.
Death
Night (at least in the New Jerusalem)
Hades
the sea
The rebellions and disobedient demons, Jesus said, wander about in "waterless places".
When Jesus expelled the demons into the pigs that drove them to run for escape from being punished by the Son of God into the sea. (See Matthew 8:28-34 and Matthew 12:43)
There is something about the sea which is a leftover from the earth being made waste and void in the judgment of a previous economy.
26 Jan 15
1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipYou are just being contentious and silly now with all this nonsense. If you wish to continue to believe the atheist evolutionists and other false teachers, then I can't help you.The scripture says God stretched out the heavens. Where does it say God stretched time? It appears you are accepting the vain imaginations of man (the atheist evolutionist) over the revealed word of God.
I don't have to find a passage that says God stretched out time.
I can see that time is "stretched out" and very likely "stret ...[text shortened]... /b].
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Originally posted by RJHinds
You are just being contentious and silly now with all this nonsense. If you wish to continue to believe the atheist evolutionists and other false teachers, then I can't help you.
You are just being contentious and silly now with all this nonsense. If you wish to continue to believe the atheist evolutionists and other false teachers, then I can't help you.
When lifting up the name of God in vain doesn't work for you and honking our phony hallaluYAHs Praise the Lord, Glory Glorys!!, which you hide like some kind of lifeless religious machine, when your smug moniker does nothing, when your silly sensational junky links don't do the job, then you resort to dismissal of those believers as followers atheists and false teachers.
You spoke of violation of the fourth commandment. You should consider your own lifting up the name of God pretentiously to give a false impression like you are in the middle of worship when you just sounding like a "sounding brass or a clanging cymbal". I think you are lifting up the name of God in vain. I think you're jesting with the name of God which would be a breaking of the commandment -
"You shall not take the name of Jehovah your God in vain; for Jehovah will not hold guiltless him who takes His name in vain." (Exodus 20:7)
Why don't you think about that the next time you want to hide your arguments behind mock exhalting.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
I don't believe your worship in the middle of your debates. If you want to start a thread on the worship of God in a genuine spirit that would be good. Pulling this out every time someone doesn't go along with YEC is not impressing me and appears cynical and hollow, especially preceded by you smug moniker.
Don't tell me the fourth commandment is being violated by anyone who doesn't think the universe is 6,000 years old.
As for the marriage of Adam and Eve being undercut by not holding to a recent universe creation, I think I could write here on the significance of Adam and Eve probably much more than you could.
If you contend with me then you will get some contention. Especially I contend that you have not shown any detraction from the teachings of salvation through Christ in any way by me believing in Satan's preadamic history.
You tried to link it to breaking the Sabbath, to atheism, to Darwinism, to not believing in a first man and first woman - Adam and Eve, and following the cues of your Young Earth teachers like a tape recorder, fail to validate the accused unorthodoxy of Christians who believe in valid and certainly reasonable, at least, interpretations of Genesis 1:2; Genesis 19:12; Isaiah 45:18; Rev. 20:13; Matthew 12:43; Luke 11:24; Rev. 21:1.
Your argument is worst than "silly" because you think everyone not following Bishop Ussher's chronology on the age of the universe is either a Darwinist or following an atheist.
And when the dust settles from your smug moniker and your -
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
Some posters can see that you don't have that strong of a case for your accusations.
26 Jan 15
Originally posted by sonshipEnjoy your praise from the evolutionists, atheists, and other unbelievers while you can. 😏You are just being contentious and silly now with all this nonsense. If you wish to continue to believe the atheist evolutionists and other false teachers, then I can't help you.
When lifting up the name of God in vain doesn't work for you and honking our phony hallaluYAHs Praise the Lord, Glory Glorys!!, which you hide like some ...[text shortened]... [/quote]
Some posters can see that you don't have that strong of a case for your accusations.
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26 Jan 15
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Originally posted by RJHindsWell, you enjoy salvation and the fellowship with our Lord Jesus and other Christians. You enjoy genuine fulfilling worship, of Christ.
Enjoy your praise from the evolutionists, atheists, and other unbelievers while you can. 😏
I feel no ill will towards you.
I even respect your convictions and don't think I could learn nothing from ICR.
Expect that I will give an answer to ANYONE who asks of me a reason for my belief and my faith. That includes you.
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RJHinds,
Enjoy your praise from the evolutionists, atheists, and other unbelievers while you can.
Okay wiseguy, let's unpack this little wisecrack just a bit.
A poster FMF says he liked what I wrote, who is a skeptic. So this you ASSUME I enjoyed - #1.
Secondly, there WERE times in the NT testament that unbelievers spoke something positive towards Christians. For example - Acts 2:47.
" ... continuing steadfastly ... praising God and having favor with all the people. "
"[A]ll the people" included some skeptics too probably. Would you be standing there encouraging the disciples to "enjoy your praise ... from other unbelievers" because of this?
So sometimes some unbeliever says something positive about a disciple of Jesus. So what ? Being constant annoyance to everyone is not the sole mark of a follower of Christ.
Do you measure your faithfulness to God by how much of a bother you can be to people ?
Both congradulations or criticism is not important here. Your attempt to define orthodoxy along the lines of the dictates of YEC fails. I don't label you as second class as a Christian because you cling to Bishop Ussher's chronology. And I won't accept you defining me as a Darwinist or a follower of atheists because I am convinced that we are not told how old creation is and we are not told everything about the time before the present economy of God.
Why is assuming the universe is older than 6,000 years damaging to any major tenet of the Gospel of Christ ?
If all die in Adam, all die in Adam.
If all are made alive in Christ, all are made alive in Christ.
If something died before Adam died, it makes no difference to this from the standpoint of God's sovereign transcendence over time.
We were chosen in Christ "before the foundation of the world" IE. before ANYONE or ANYTHING died. So get over it. And thank God that things we don't know about creation don't change that.
Did you not READ what the older book of Job said about God's acts? What we hear of God's acts are only the fringes or the outskirts. The thunder of all He has done who can understand ?
Job 26:14
English Standard Version
Behold, these are but the outskirts of his ways, and how small a whisper do we hear of him! But the thunder of his power who can understand?
King James Bible
Lo, these are parts of his ways: but how little a portion is heard of him? but the thunder of his power who can understand?
So between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 we hear a portion, the outskirts of His doings in the very ancient past. He tells us the pertinent things. This world we have now is made for Christ and the church, was made for Adam, for man.
And before ANY creature sinned and died anywhere, the sons of God were chosen to fulfill His eternal purpose "before the foundation of the world" (Eph. 1:4).
Our Gospel is not hurt by millions of years of the past physical universe, if that be the case.
27 Jan 15
2 edits
Originally posted by sonshipAccepting millions of years of past history make evolution more believable and turns many away from the truth of the Holy Bible as it presents a created world by God.
RJHinds,
Enjoy your praise from the evolutionists, atheists, and other unbelievers while you can.
Okay wiseguy, let's unpack this little wisecrack just a bit.
A poster FMF says he liked what I wrote, who is a skeptic. So this you ASSUME I enjoyed - #1.
Secondly, there WERE times in the NT testament that unbelievers spoke som ...[text shortened]... pel is not hurt by millions of years of the past physical universe, if that be the case.
We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, and we are ready to punish all disobedience, whenever your obedience is complete.
(2 Corinthins 10:5-6 NASB)
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27 Jan 15
3 edits
Originally posted by RJHinds
Accepting millions of years of past history make evolution more believable and turns many away from the truth of the Holy Bible as it presents a created world by God.
We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, and we are ready to p ...[text shortened]... nish all disobedience, whenever your obedience is complete.
(2 Corinthins 10:5-6 NASB)
Therefore just as through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin, death; and thus all death passed on to all men because all have sinned - (Rom. 5:12)
RJHinds,
Which to you is more important (though both be true) -
All dying in Adam
Or All being made alive in Christ?
It seems that YEC are putting forth very much effort that people understand that all died in Adam. And so says Romans.
But which one of these truths should Christians be MORE concerned that is clear in the Gospel - everything died because of Adam or Christ's resurrection insures all men and women will be resurrected ?
I think it is possible that we be over much preaching on the lesser aspect of Paul's revelation there, and neglect the weightier matter - "all made alive in Christ"
So you spend huge amounts of time and energy to get everyone convinced that DEATH came because of Adam. So you fight that no one regards DEATH in any form to be aside from and prior to Adam.
This is really the less important of the two truths. Paul says - "Death reigned from Adam until Moses ..." (vs. 14)
If there were millions of years in some other world with goings on not fully disclosed to us, does it CHANGE the fact that "Death reigned from Adam until Moses ..." ?
If I believe that a preadamic world lay in ruination for a long period of time, perhaps to prove that Satan could not repair or create anything, does that make LESS of a truth that "Death reigned from Adam until Moses ..." ?
Our Gospel is not primarily a Good News about how extensive DEATH was.
Rather it is more focused on "In Him was life, life was the light of men" (John 1:4) .
I don't really know where to place prehistoric animals for absolute certainty. But they died apparently. Whenever they died it does not change that death reigned from Adam until Moses. And it surely does not change the victory of Christ's resurrection, that we are made spiritually alive in Christ, or that all will be resurrected to stand before Him one day.
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27 Jan 15
Originally posted by RJHinds
Accepting millions of years of past history make evolution more believable and turns many away from the truth of the Holy Bible as it presents a created world by God.
It could also be a realization that the ruler over a past destroyed empire could do nothing to repair what had been made waste and void. It could also prove that Satan had no power to create anything but only corrupt what God had created.
Millions of years of the creation lying in ruin could also testify that the proud Anointed Cherub could not do the creation work as the Creator. After his kingdom being judged he could only sullenly wait for God to make another move.
So millions of years of preadamic universe could also strengthen our understanding of God being the Most High that no rebel could EVER be like Him.
27 Jan 15
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemyep, because god is just a self absorbed teenage girl that wants attention.
What do I get if I accept your offer?
The best conceivable thing.
What consequences obtain if I refuse your offer?
The worst conceivable thing.
What must I do to go from this one staggering result to the other?
Just pray a little prayer. It will take you about a minute.
someone doing this is less worthy than an atheist doing good deeds and being honest.
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27 Jan 15
3 edits
Originally posted by Zahlanzi
someone doing this is less worthy than an atheist doing good deeds and being honest.
We saw an example of your "honesty" on the thread where you're chaffing at the bit to call Moses a terrorist. You lied about the first round of negotiations between God and Pharaoh. Your malicious twisting of the story demonstrated your "being honest" - an honest fraud who didn't read Exodus chapter five but wants to expound on it just to slander God.
28 Jan 15
Originally posted by sonship[b] Therefore just as through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin, death; and thus all death passed on to all men because all have sinned - (Rom. 5:12)
RJHinds,
Which to you is more important (though both be true) -
All dying in Adam
Or All being made alive in Christ?
It seems t ...[text shortened]... e made spiritually alive in Christ, or that all will be resurrected to stand before Him one day.[/b]The are both just as important for you can not have one without the other. 😏