The Eternal Son of God

-Removed-

I read it. It was illogical. And the verse you used didn't fit.

-Removed-

I didn't say "good friend". I had said "old friend". Although I'm certain Ghost of a Duke and I could become good friends.

I think if the Ghost was interested in this thread he'd be posting in it already. Doesn't mean he'd be interested in our exchanges though.

But if you think we need a referee why don't you ask him?

@sonship said
@KellyJay

One of the things that people have issues with in the OT is God speaking and
using the words, "let us" example when God created man. We are made in the
image of God, not in the image of angels so God was simply speaking Father, Son,
and Holy Spirit the "US" that was revealed in the New Testament. When Jesus
was about to leave what was one of the c ...[text shortened]... ve all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

You are not speaking of the Trinity but a being with three different titles/names, not a trinity a singular being.

@SecondSon
To a certain extent one just have to ignore Divegeester. To engage him is not necessary. Sticking close to the OP of the Eternal Son, I would comment here.

Psalm 2:7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

This Psalm was referred to by Paul in Acts 13:33. I believe that there the Holy Spirit inspired him to reveal that "this day I have begotten You" refers to the day of Christ's resurrection.

" ... God has fully fulfilled this promise to us their children in RAISING UP JESUS, as it is also written in the SECOND PSALM, You are My Son; this day I have begotten You." (Acts 13:33)

The resurrection of Jesus was spoken of by HIMSELF as the BIRTH of a new born man into the world. Before His death He comforted His sorrowful disciples, telling them that His rising from the dead would be like His birth.

A woman, when she gives birth has sorrow because her hour has come; but when she brings forth a little child, she no longer remembers the affliction because of the joy that a man has been born into the world.

Therefore you also now have sorrow; but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice and no one takes your joy away from you. (John 16:21,22)

You see? The the disciples, the human disciples are part of a corporate "woman" so to speak. Jesus as a man like us is a part of that body of an expectant woman of God's people. His death is for their redemption. And His resurrection is God BEGETTING Him to be a newborn child in the world as the Firstborn Son of God. And on the day of His resurrection this NEW humanity was born - "This day I have begotten You" (Psalm 2:7; Acts 13:33).

Divegeester is free to write his beliefs. To some extent I just have to ignore his wanting to argue.

Above I showed that Psalm 2:7 and Acts 13:33 show that Christ's resurrection was His being begotten the Firstborn Son - "This day I have begotten You."

We must not regard Jesus' resurrection as merely Him "coming back" to life. Now indeed it did involve Him RETURNING to life from being dead. But on a deeper level it was His BIRTH of a new humanity. He became the BEGINNING of a new race. He became the Elder Brother, the FIRST to be begotten with deified humanity.

He was designated the Son of God in power out of the resurrection from the dead states Romans 1:3,4

"Concerning His Son, who came out of the seed of David according to the flesh, Who was designated the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness out of the resurrection of the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom. 1:2,3)

The pre-existing Son of God incarnated as the seed of David. But in resurrection He brought about a new humanity into the universe - a resurrected and deified God-man begotten to be the Firstborn Son.

His eternal past is secure. His resurrection is His becoming the First Son of many brothers (Rom. 8:29).

God's salvation must be understood in context of His eternal plan to reproduce many sons, many brothers of the Firstborn Son of God. Here:

"Truly, truly I say to you, Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone, but if it dies it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)

This shows that God's purpose is to mass produce the ONE grain into many grains. God's eternal purpose is to duplicate the ONE grain into many grains. And for this the ONE grain must die. Its life is released into many grains.

And the Firstborn Son was begotten in resurrection.

Christ's resurrection was His birth as the Firstborn Son. Paul calls it being DESIGNATED the Son of God out of resurrection. The incarnated God-man who was the seed of David died and rose to be designated the Firstborn Son of God in the power of an indestructible life.

"Concerning His Son, who came out of the seed of David according to the flesh, Who was designated the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness out of the resurrection of the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom. 1:3,4)

Understand that Jesus did more than just "come back" to life. He accomplished the introduction of a NEW humanity into the universe - a glorified, deified, new "race" of a God saturated humanity. He is the FIRST to be followed by "many brothers".

We must distinguish between Christ and the pre-existing Son of God, the only begotten Son of God, and the Firstborn Son in resurrection.

I wrote a song on this verse showing Christ's resurrection was the BIRTH of a new born child into the world. Here's the verse followed by a link to the song.

Truly, truly, I say to you that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy.

A woman when she gives birth, has sorrow because because her hour has come; but when she brings forth the little child, she no longer remembers the affliction because of the joy that a man has been born into the world.

Therefore you also now have sorrow, but I will see you again and your hearts will rejoice, and no one takes your joy away from you." (John 16:20-22)

https://soundcloud.com/jack-wilmore/your-sorrow-will-be-turned-into-joy-john-1620-22

From psalm 2:7
“You are my son;
today I have become your father.”

The Son of God is spoken of as not having beginning of days nore end of life in Hebrews 7:3.
The writer is impressing us that even though be became a man He is ETERNAL as to both past and future

Being without father, without mother, without geneology, having neither beginning if days not end of life, but likened to the Son of God, abides a priest perpetually. (Heb. 7:3)

We have to give heed to that teaching also.

Context:
On this day I became your father
Therefore before this day I was not your father

The last word on the context is given in Acts 13:33 And there "this day" refers to the day of Christ's resurection.

Therefore...
Fatherhood and sonship have a beginning and if something has a beginning it CAN NOT be eternal.

Not that simple. I already showed you Hebrews 7:3 where the Holy Spirit is impressing upon the Christians that we should think of Jesus as being without beginning of days nor end of life, even without father and mother.

So on one hand, yes He was born of the virgin Mary, God being His Father.
On the other hand He is without father or mother in that He ALWAYS was.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

The “eternal son” is not mentioned in scripture

Are you saying the Word in John 1:1 is not the Son of God ?

In Isaiah it says of the Son that “of his kingdom and authority there will be no end.” But in...

1 Cor 15:24
The son hands over the kingdom to the Father...

It does not say "hand over". That is your expression.
His dominion is "an eternal dominion" regardless of how submissive or subject He is.

And completely subjected Son of God can have an eternal dominion.

How can this be? These scriptures can only both be true if the son and the father are the same PERSON revealed in different manifestations.

That is one side of the total truth.
The other side is that the Father and the Son are the Divine "We" in John 14:23.

Both simultaneously come to make an abode with the lovers of Jesus. It does not mean the one who WAS the Father who is no more comes as the Son to make an abode with them. It means that the Father and the Son who both exist currently, simultaneously, will come as the Divine "We" to make an abode with the lovers of Jesus.

So to say "One Person" is right. And to say "Three Persons" is right. That is if we realize the word "person/s" has its limitations to express such a mysterious nature of God.

All three are seen PRESENT at the same time in a Matthew 3:16:

And having been baptized, Jesus (the Son) went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God (the Holy Spirit) descending like a dove and coming upon Him, and behold a voice out of the heavens (the Father), saying, This is My Son, the Beloved, In whom I have found My delight." (Matt. 3:16,17) [/b]

The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit all present simultaneously at one moment.
God is triune.

These are simple straightforward Bible facts and they are irrefutable. The Gospel is not intellectual or complicated it is simple.

"the mystery of the faith" is a biblical term (First Timothy 3:9)

Do not permit your dislike of divegeester to get in the way of this simple truth.

Liking or disliking divegeester has little to do with it.
Being able to believe both sides of the revelation of God is what counts.

Can anyone deny that the three "persons" of the Godhead are mentioned as operating together simultaneously here also?

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." (2 Cor. 3:14)

Don't let the ad homs of "waffle" or "hairdryer" get in the way of the wonderful and mysterious truth of the Bible.

@sonship said
To a certain extent one just have to ignore Divegeester. To engage him is not necessary.

Do you think that both you and divegeester are "saved" despite your somewhat different beliefs with regard to Jesus?

@sonship said

From psalm 2:7
“You are my son;
today I have become your father.”

The Son of God is spoken of as not having beginning of days nore end of life in Hebrews 7:3.
The writer is impressing us that even though be became a man He is ETERNAL as to both past and future

[quote] Being without father, without mother, without geneology, having neither b ...[text shortened]... d homs of "waffle" or "hairdryer" get in the way of the wonderful and mysterious truth of the Bible.

I agree the deity and humanity of Christ messes with people’s thinking and beliefs. It can be said by and of Jesus, He can truthfully say before Abraham I AM, and He was born and died. As it can be said the Father and the Holy Spirit are also God, the three persons being the one God.