Spirituality
08 Feb 15
Originally posted by sonshipI can accept that Eden could be in heaven because both places represent a paradise. I also accept that Satan could have been moving about on the earth since Job also refers to it. However, I do not accept that Satan was judged and the EARTH became waste and empty between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. I believe Genesis 1:2 is simply saying the earth was not completely formed and ready for habitation, because it was covered with water and had no light.Why must the mention of Eden refer to some other Eden than the one in Genesis? Do you think it could be referring to an Eden in Heaven? If so, why?
Yes, I do think an Eden in Heaven is what Ezekiel means. Or the Eden as the garden of God on the holy mountain in the heavenlies as per [b]Isaiah 14:13b.
The physics or geology or ge ...[text shortened]... o.
Why did you ask me in one of these threads about what day the serpent was created ?[/b]
I believe Satan will be judged once and for all as Revelation informs us.
I asked the question to see if you associated the mention of the serpent in Genesis with the one mentioned in Revelation. 😏
16 Apr 15
Originally posted by sonshipAdam was originally given dominion by God. However, Satan used the serpent or dragon possession to take away man's dominion over the earth. But this occurred because of Adam's sin. So any reference to Satan's rulership over the earth is not referring to an imaginary time period between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.Do you think it could be referring to an Eden in Heaven? If so, why?
[b]"So I cast you out as a profane from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire." (Ezek. 28:16)
Heaven, I think, is being spoken of.
When God came down and appeared to Moses, Aaron and the 70 elders ...[text shortened]... the planet. But I don't know. And maybe one day we'll find out more about the very ancient past.[/b]
17 Apr 15
Originally posted by RJHindsSo how much time passed between dinosaurs and humans?
Adam was originally given dominion by God. However, Satan used the serpent or dragon possession to take away man's dominion over the earth. But this occurred because of Adam's sin. So any reference to Satan's rulership over the earth is not referring to an imaginary time period between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
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17 Apr 15
2 edits
Originally posted by RJHinds
I can accept that Eden could be in heaven because both places represent a paradise. I also accept that Satan could have been moving about on the earth since Job also refers to it. However, I do not accept that Satan was judged and the EARTH became waste and empty between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. I believe Genesis 1:2 is simply saying the earth was not completely formed and ready for habitation, because it was covered with water and had no light.
I believe Satan will be judged once and for all as Revelation informs us.
Last point first:
The judging of Satan is carried out in successive stages.
1.) Judged in Ezekiel 28:16 - "So I cast you out as profane from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."
That is the first degree of being judged.
2.) Yet in the serpent he is further limited with a judgment -
Genesis 3:14 - "And Jehovah God said to the serpent, Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all the cattle and more than all the animals of the field: Upon your stomach you will go, And dust you will eat all the days of your life."
My opinion is that this meant that he would have no further beings to "feed" upon. But man (created of the dust) would be the only creature he could "eat". Man dying turns back into the dust of the earth.
This was a second degree of judgment and limitation.
3.) All during human history Satan still has freedom to visit before God in heaven's real to accuse and slander God's people to God. We see this in the book of Job.
IE. "Then one day, when he sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, Satan also came among them. And Jehovah said to Satan, Where have you come from? And Satan answered Jehovah and said, From roving the earth and going about in it. " (Job 1:6, comp. Job 2:1)
Satan goes on to slander and accuse God and challenge Him that he (Satan) can get Job to curse God.
This freedom still left, for Satan to occasionally appear before God in the heavenlies, will be judged and deprived to him at the rapture of the Manchild 1260 days before the end of the age.
Revelation 12:9 - "And the great dragon was cast down, the ancient serpent, he who is called the Devil and Satan, he who deceives the whole inhabited earth; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him."
You see the freedom to appear in heaven to be an accuser is then judged:
Revelation 12:10-12 "And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, Now has come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brothers has been cast down, who accuses them before our God day and night. And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death.
Therefore be glad, O heavens and those who dwell in them. [ because Satan can no longer visit heaven] Woe to the earth and the sea because the devil has come down to you and has great rage, knowing that he has only a short time."
Satan is then judged to be limited to the surface of the earth, and for 1260 days.
4.) Then Satan is further judged to be confined to the abyss for 1,000 years. This occurs when Jesus Christ sets down physically upon the earth again. This is after the 1260 days of the great tribulation.
Revelation 20:1-3 "And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And cast him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, that he might not deceive the nations any longer until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be loosed for a little while."
You should be able to see by now that the judging of Satan is carried out in stages. And each stage further restricts and limits his freedom.
5.) Finally Satan is taken from the abyss and soon finds his final destiny in the lake of fire for eternal damnation.
Revelation 20:10 - "And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where also the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
Down, down, down, shut up, and then into the lake of fire.
The judgment of Satan is a progressive matter.
The other matter I will address latter.
17 Apr 15
Originally posted by sonshipYou might consider those judgments or punishments, but I was actually referring to the one judgment were Satan is thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone to remain there in torment forever. The others you mentioned are like slaps on the hand.
[quote] I can accept that Eden could be in heaven because both places represent a paradise. I also accept that Satan could have been moving about on the earth since Job also refers to it. However, I do not accept that Satan was judged and the EARTH became waste and empty between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. I believe Genesis 1:2 is simply saying the earth was not co ...[text shortened]... e.
The judgment of Satan is a progressive matter.
The other matter I will address latter.
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20 Apr 15
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHinds
You might consider those judgments or punishments, but I was actually referring to the one judgment were Satan is thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone to remain there in torment forever. The others you mentioned are like slaps on the hand.
You might consider those judgments or punishments, but I was actually referring to the one judgment were Satan is thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone to remain there in torment forever. The others you mentioned are like slaps on the hand.
They were judgements / punishments carried out in successive stages.
And the church participates in the execution of judgment against Satan. In fact God CREATED man with this in mind.
Our saturation with divine life facilitates and expedites the judgments of Satan down to the last throwing of him into the lake of fire.
Our sanctification, our saturation with Christ facilitates and hastens the demise of Satan. He knows this. Christians are often ignorant of it. But Satan knows this.
In these last days God is revealing more and more clearly the church's part in the execution of the Devil. God needs the local churches to crush Satan under the feet of the believers who are being permeated with Christ.
God is recovering this revelation to His people in these last days. He is recovering the image and the dominion through the believers being filled up and permeated with Christ as the overcoming life.
The warfare and the successive judgment of God's enemy is taking place within the battleground of the believers' souls. And their being sanctified with Christ as life is the main ingredient causing the final crushing of Satan.
"Now the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you." (Romans 16:20)
Do you see here that the Apostle Paul is saying that Satan will be crushed under the feet of the normal prevailing churching people - "will crush Satan under YOUR feet ..."
By churching people I just mean the assembly of saints in various localities in oneness for the saturation, permeation, transformation and building up together to accomplish God's eternal purpose.
Satan's way of forestalling his execution in final is by sidetracking, destracting, and delaying the saints from saturation with Christ. God needs a kind of "beachhead". God needs a kind of beach of Normandy where a remnant of saints are corporately participating in the saturation with Christ.
As Christ spreads and grows in them Satan in them is being crushed. Our saturation will bring in the kingdom age. Our saturation will woo the Lord back and turn the age from the church age to the kingdom age.
"And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, Now has come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brothers has been cast down, who accuses them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death." (Revelation 12:10,11)
Knowing that God is our Creator and the Author of life of every kind is indeed important. Also important is the exposing of Satan's strategy to prevent the saints in the the world from being saturated, matured, conformed and transformed into the image of Christ to express Christ and recover the dominion of the earth for God.
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I will respond to any comment. But I ask you to read this again with a prayerful spirit, perhaps aloud first. It is a request.
22 Apr 15
Originally posted by sonshipThis sounds like a kind of evolution type theory to me and I believe in creation with no gap.You might consider those judgments or punishments, but I was actually referring to the one judgment were Satan is thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone to remain there in torment forever. The others you mentioned are like slaps on the hand.
They were judgements / punishments carried out in successive stages.
And the churc ...[text shortened]... read this again with a prayerful spirit, perhaps [b] aloud first. It is a request.[/b]
22 Apr 15
Originally posted by sonshipI don't see any sense in looking into an imaginary gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. There is nothing even said about Satan there. So it seems reasonable to believe there was no judgment of Satan for some imaginary sin commited before Adam and Eve were created.
I think sometime you should look deeper into a matter and not stop with what something "sounds like" to you.
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22 Apr 15
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't see any sense in looking into an imaginary gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. There is nothing even said about Satan there. So it seems reasonable to believe there was no judgment of Satan for some imaginary sin commited before Adam and Eve were created.
You don't think that Satan sinned in lying about God's word to Adam and Eve? You don't think Satan sinned in slandering God to the first humans ?
You don't think any sin was commited by Satan when Ezekiel says that unrighteousness was found in him after he was made perfect in his ways ?
"You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you." (Ezek. 28:15)
What is it in your belief -
1.) None of this refers to Satan but to a ruler of the nation Tyre?
2.) None of this refers to Satan before the events of Genesis chapter 3?
Do you think Satan was still "perfect in his ways" and wholly without sin when he appeared in or possessing the serpent in the garden ?
See, this is how you obscure the naked history of the enemy of God. You refer to what the Bible has exposed as "imaginary sin commited before Adam and Eve were created."
I on the other hand still regard the devastating condition of the earth in verse 2 as not a copy cat of all pagan cosmogonies about the world beginning in chaos. But I regard it as indicative of divine judgment. And the ancient enemy - Daystar, the Anointed Cherub is the best explanation.
How about the "imaginary innocence" with which you seem to be associating with the liar in the garden?
22 Apr 15
2 edits
Originally posted by sonshipSatan's sin in lying about God's word to Adam and Eve did not happen between Genesis 1:1 and I:2. This sin happened when the angel Lucifer became Satan the devil by possessing the body of the serpent dragon in the Garden of Eden after everything was created and God rested from this part of His creation work. The event that uncovered the unrighteous in him was his tempting of Eve with lies.I don't see any sense in looking into an imaginary gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. There is nothing even said about Satan there. So it seems reasonable to believe there was no judgment of Satan for some imaginary sin commited before Adam and Eve were created.
You don't think that Satan sinned in lying about God's word to Adam and Eve? Y ...[text shortened]... out the "imaginary innocence" with which you seem to be associating with the liar in the garden?
What I presented above is not imaginary, but clearly revealed in scripture. You, on the other hand. must invent imaginary time to present speculations of an imaginary history of sin and death and judgment on a pre-Adamic earth.