The Garden of Eden

Originally posted by HandyAndy
I think they're both smoking cigarettes and afraid of being banished by the JW high command.

robbie has claimed BOTH that it is forbidden in scripture and has then sought to deny that it is forbidden in scripture, so it seems he can smoke or not smoke, either way he has self-sanctified or self-certified his own opinions and behaviour ~ whatever he chooses to do he can claim it is "Biblical", although he has in the past been quite categorical about refusing to give his wife oral sex on account of it not being not "scriptural". 😵

Originally posted by FMF
robbie has claimed BOTH that it is forbidden in scripture and has then sought to deny that it is forbidden in scripture, so it seems he can smoke or not smoke, either way he has self-sanctified or self-certified his own opinions and behaviour ~ whatever he chooses to do he can claim it is "Biblical", although he has in the past been quite categorical about refusing to give his wife oral sex on account of it not being not "scriptural". 😵

What about Sodom and Gomorrah?

Originally posted by HandyAndy
What about Sodom and Gomorrah?

No thanks, there is only one special person in my life.

Originally posted by galveston75
You are only one little bitty tiny human being's opinion spouting it out like a spokesman for satan.
I know what the WTS is and nothing on this planet, especially someone like you will ever tarnish that...

Good day sir!

I'm a "spokesperson for satan" now am I?

A political row broke out today when a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses were found to have their metaphorical 'pants down' over a dispute about the physical reality and subsequent location of the Tree of Life - which of course was protected and guarded by god in the garden of Eden. It was alleged by at least one of the Jehovah's Witnesses that the Tree of Life was real, but no longer existed because it was in fact dead. This assertion led to a full public inquiry with the outcome being a resolution that this was in fact JW "self certified opinion".
In an attempt to diffuse the row one of the JWs pointed out that the opposition was in cohorts with Satan. Satan was of course an eyewitness to the Garden of Eden events - however a spokesperson for satan said he was not available for comment. The case continues.

Originally posted by galveston75
I know what the WTS is and nothing on this planet, especially someone like you will ever tarnish that...

So you say. I remember you telling us that its publications are inspired in the same way as the Bible.

Originally posted by FMF
robbie has claimed BOTH that it is forbidden in scripture and has then sought to deny that it is forbidden in scripture, so it seems he can smoke or not smoke, either way he has self-sanctified or self-certified his own opinions and behaviour ~ whatever he chooses to do he can claim it is "Biblical", although he has in the past been quite categorical about refusing to give his wife oral sex on account of it not being not "scriptural". 😵

more drool from the slobbery one and yes its does work and yes it is a very appropriate description of your posts and no i am not trying too hard to be funny,

What I actually said was that there are principles which make it clear that smoking is prohibited in scripture, that you fail to comprehend what these principles are, that you could not bring yourself to admit that smoking is a defilement of the body and that you need to fabricate transparent plastic-bag-on-wire-fence arguments is your affair, to me its simply another indication of your inability to formulate rational thought as a consequence of a perceived identity crisis.

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm a "spokesperson for satan" now am I?

A political row broke out today when a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses were found to have their metaphorical 'pants down' over a dispute about the physical reality and subsequent location of the Tree of Life - which of course was protected and guarded by god in the garden of Eden. It was alleged by at least o ...[text shortened]... r a [b]spokesperson for satan said he was not available for comment. The case continues.[/b]

I'm a "spokesperson for satan" now am I?

Yes I would say so given the copious amounts of drool that you drool.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
more drool from the slobbery one and yes its does work and yes it is a very appropriate description of your posts and no i am not trying too hard to be funny,

What I actually said was that there are principles which make it clear that smoking is prohibited in scripture, that you fail to comprehend what these principles are, that you could not brin ...[text shortened]... of your inability to formulate rational thought as a consequence of a perceived identity crisis.

Smoking is not explicitly forbidden in scripture but it is your opinion that it is plausible to deduce that smoking is forbidden, would that be a fair summary of your stance?

Originally posted by HandyAndy
I think they're both smoking cigarettes and afraid of being banished by the JW high command.

what do you know about its Randolph Gandolph?

Let us see if you can think rationally, logically and reasonably seeing that the windy scourger himself failed to do so. here is the line of reasoning.

1. The Biblical principle is that a Christian should avoid anything which defiles the body or spirit.

let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit - 1 Corinthians 3

2. smoking is clearly a defilement of the body - cancerresearch.org

3. Given that smoking is a defilement of the body and given that a Christian is advised to avoid anything that defiles the body (the flesh) its evident that a Christian should avoid smoking cigarettes.

The great windbag himself FMF could not bring himself to acknowledge either the principle (he made up some ludicrous claim about stabbing women in the vagina with bayonets as his perception of an act of defilement when i had to point out that a dictionary definition was perfectly adequate) and he stated that smoking was not a defilement of the body and could not bring himself to acknowledge the scientific evidence to the contrary.

what are we to make of it? that he is insincere? plastic? incapable of rational thought? having an identity crisis? simply a poor reader? uninterested in logic or reason? a windbag?

ironic all things considered.

Originally posted by FMF
Smoking is not explicitly forbidden in scripture but it is your opinion that it is plausible to deduce that smoking is forbidden, would that be a fair summary of your stance?

you can see the above, it presents a line of reasoning that you could not bring yourself to either acknowledge nor understand.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you can see the above, it presents a line of reasoning that you could not bring yourself to either acknowledge nor understand.

I understand and acknowledge your personal opinion about smoking cigarettes and I see your reasoning behind it. It is an interpretation that I think we can call a "self-certified" opinion, if we are to adopt the terminology you use. And you ~ like everyone else ~ are entitled to your personal opinions when it comes to your code for living. If what you see as being 'the word of God' has helped you or motivated you to give up smoking, then good for you.

Originally posted by FMF
I understand and acknowledge your personal opinion about smoking cigarettes and I see your reasoning behind it. It is an interpretation that I think we can call a "self-certified" opinion, if we are to adopt the terminology you use. And you ~ like everyone else ~ are entitled to your personal opinions when it comes to your code for living. If what you see as being 'the word of God' has helped you or motivated you to give up smoking, then good for you.

really? and how else might one view smoking cigarettes from the perspective of the principles and scriptures cited?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
really? and how else might one view smoking cigarettes from the perspective of the principles and scriptures cited?

You should ask Christians whose opinions differ from yours. What I am interested in is you recognizing that your opinion differs from the opinions of others and, if something is not explicitly forbidden in the Bible, there is room for interpretation and deduction ~ as you have demonstrated ~ and therefore there are differing opinions, one of which is yours. Opinions also differ about whether some of the stories in Genesis are "literally true" just as your opinions about blood transfusions differ from other Christians that interpret the relevant parts of scripture in a different way from you.

Originally posted by FMF
You should ask Christians whose opinions differ from yours. What I am interested in is you recognizing that your opinion differs from the opinions of others and, if something is not explicitly forbidden in the Bible, there is room for interpretation and deduction ~ as you have demonstrated ~ and therefore there are differing opinions, one of which is yours. Opin ...[text shortened]... rom other Christians that interpret the relevant parts of scripture in a different way from you.

No i am asking you. One does not need to be a Christian to engage in rational logical thinking.

How else might one view smoking cigarettes from the perspective of the principles and scriptures cited?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No i am asking you. One does not need to be a Christian to engage in rational logical thinking.

How else might one view smoking cigarettes from the perspective of the principles and scriptures cited?

One can quite rationally interpret the scripture as not referring to smoking if one interprets the term "defilement of the flesh" to mean things like sexual intercourse with children, cannibalism, female genital mutilation and so on. Do you think "defilement of the flesh" covers working in a coal mine, wading through sewage, cooking with wood in a confined space, and riding a motorbike around Jakarta without a gas mask?

No. You don't. So interpretation is necessary. And opinions differ. Your opinion is your opinion and you have a reason for holding it. The Bible was not explicit about smoking or breathing in coal dust or exposing yourself to exhaust fumes or working in the sewerage under a city. So different Christians will have different personal opinions about how to interpret this piece of scripture and about how to apply it to their lives, just as you do.