The Gospel of Jesus vs The Gospel of Paul

Originally posted by @thinkofone

Actually the later OT prophets recognized that God had had enough sacrifice - He wanted knowledge of God and loyalty instead. The gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry was a logical extension of this concept.

Hosea 6
6 For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice,
And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.

Originally posted by @sonship
In [b]Matthew 19:17-19 Jesus again predicts His death and resurrection DURING HIS MINISTRY...WHILE HE WALKED ON EARTH.

[quote] "And as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, He took the twelve disciples aside privately, and on the way said to them,

Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and sc ...[text shortened]... icarious atoning death, a death from which He will also rise to shepherd men into God's kingdom.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Your conclusions are unbiblical and nonsensical.
This stems from you blindly swallowing the false doctrines of the men you worship.

If you listen to Christ then you would see this;

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
(Matthew 6:14-15 KJV)

The unforgiving man will not be forgiven.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Jesus is speaking pre-New Covenant. How could Jesus’ blood cleanse us from our sins and make us righteous (in right standing with God) when He had yet to sacrifice Himself on the cross?

Originally posted by @rajk999
Funny ... so those who listened to Jesus prior to his crucification are doomed and cannot be forgiven ... nice one smarty.

Originally posted by @sonship

The word translated as "ransom" literally means "the purchasing money for manumitting slaves". It is only used figuratively as a sacrifice for the atonement of sins.

And is it not you who frequently points out that he who commits sin is a SLAVE to sin? [b](John 8:34)

The slaves to sin are in custody of the Law of God. Legally th ...[text shortened]... die. This does not mean He did not die a once and for all ransoming death of eternal redemption.[/b]

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Perhaps you need to get into your head that not everybody buys in to the whole crucifixion/resurrection thing, and that for those people 'good works' are a critical part of their faith. - We can even extrapolate out in to other religions and see the importance put of good works (karma) and the key impact this has on ones spiritual journey.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Okay. I'll make one more attempt..

Jesus wants His disciples to serve others by giving their lives to FREEing others from slavery just as He did. The phrase "giving their lives" means "dedicating their lives" just as Jesus dedicated His life to FREEing others.

John 8
" 31 ...If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you ...[text shortened]... Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20[b]and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.[/b]

"And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit.

Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you retain, they are retained." (John 20:22,23)

" ... if he refuses to hear the church also, let him be to you just like the Gentile and the tax collector. Truly I say to you, Whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on the earth shall have been loosed in heaven." (Matt. 18:18)

Witness Lee speaks to Christ as a "ransom" in
The Crystallization-Study Outlines—Gospel of Mark

Message 12 - [my bolding]

In His redeeming death on the cross, the Slave-Savior gave His life as a ransom for many—Mark 10:45:
The word ransom in 10:45 indicates that the Lord's redemption was His service rendered to sinners for God's plan.
In His humanity the Lord served sinners even by giving His life, that is, His soul-life; the Lord's soul-life was the ransom, the price, He paid for many—John 10:11.
The Lord Jesus did a great work in paying the price for us, giving His soul-life as a ransom to pay off our debt before God according to God's nature, justice, and requirements and under the watching of the enemy—Rom. 5:18.
Christ's giving His human life as a ransom for many took place under the process of God's judgment—8:3:
While He was being judged by God for us, He gave up His soul-life as a ransom, as a payment, for us.
God put our sins upon Him, regarding Him as the unique sinner, even as sin itself; as a result, God forsook Him, leaving Him alone under His judgment— 1 Pet. 2:24; 2 Cor. 5:21.

Mark 10:45 reveals that, as the Slave of God, He served sinners even with His life, His soul; by giving His life as a ransom for sinners, the Lord Jesus accomplished the eternal purpose of God, whom He served as a slave.
As the Slave of God, the Lord Jesus taught His disciples, at the very time they were striving to be first, to take the position of a slave—vv. 35-45.

Originally posted by @suzianne
Are you saying this is the basis for ToO's and Rajk's arguments that works is all one needs, that one can 'buy' their way into Paradise?

You might be closer to the truth than you know.

I gave Rajk999 over 24 hours to back up his claim that Witness Lee taught false doctrines.

I requested he use as much time as all day to surf around the Internet and produce TWO false doctrines taught by Witness Lee.

Before we go on, just note that his slanders were not backed up. He produced nothing. He may have produced nothing because he knows he will not be able to defend his charges.

Or maybe he's just too lazy to do any homework beside shoot off his wild slanderous mouth. Who knows?

Every verse in the New Testament about a practical church ties the church to the name of a city.

Never are two or more cities linked together to be associated with one church.

Never is one church used to cover a region.
Never is more than one church mentioned in one city.

Now, four times in the NT the church is mentioned in connection to someone's home. So some believe they see "house churches".

No racial churches are ever mentioned. You may say you come close with the phrase used "the churches of the Gentiles".

It should be understood that the Gentiles live in many cities. So they have in many cities - many churches [plural].

Two errors have been practiced by human beings in regard to this through the centuries.

1.) People desire a church which covers more than the area of a city.

2.) People desire a church which covers less than the area of a city.

Two opposing and opposite ends of the God ordained way has given rise to the problem of denominations. We should be recovered back to being IN the Spirit and ON the ground of locality to be the local churches in many localities throughout the earth.

Originally posted by @sonship
The Lord Jesus said [b]"If the Son set you free ..." (John 8:36) .
He did not say if "a son set you free".

"[T]he Son" means that He is the unique Son of God in this regard. Only "THE SON" can set sinners from the guilt and power of sin.

He did come to be the FIrstborn among many brothers. (Rom. 8:29). But there is a work on ...[text shortened]... of a living Christ, and go out there and do good things under the banner of a Humanistic Jesus."[/b]

Originally posted by @sonship

Actually the later OT prophets recognized that God had had enough sacrifice - He wanted knowledge of God and loyalty instead. The gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry was a logical extension of this concept.

Hosea 6
6 For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice,
And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.

...[text shortened]... g them is Samuel telling Saul that obedience was better than sacrifice. [b](1 Samuel 15:22) [/b]