@kingdavid403 saidYou believe Islamicization of domestic politics and using it to pander to identity politics as part of consolidating populist/authoritarian power "could not hurt"?
The current population of Turkey is 84,358,941 as of Friday, July 10, 2020,
That's about one Mosque for every 1028.52 people. Another one could not hurt.
@fmf saidlol.... Wohooooooo..... Slow down... I never said ANY of that.
You believe Islamicization of domestic politics and using it to pander to identity politics as part of consolidating polulist/authoritarian power "could not hurt"?
To me (I may be wrong) it is what it is; and, there is nothing much anyone can do about it. If you have a solution please share. Should we send in the troops?
@caesar-salad said😉 I don't know how safe I would feel there. Not enough money either. How about tea on the Canadian border? 😛 We could meet up at the Peace Gardens; neutral ground.
Maybe instead of squabbling and snarking over the true meaning of "polulism" we should meet up with FMF for tea in Samarkand.
12 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 said"Should we send in the troops?"
lol.... Wohooooooo..... Slow down... I never said ANY of that.
To me (I may be wrong) it is what it is; and, there is nothing much anyone can do about it. If you have a solution please share. Should we send in the troops?
12 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 saidBut weren't you responding to my post?
lol.... Wohooooooo..... Slow down... I never said ANY of that.
12 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 saidSo, the Turkish government, taking a Unesco World Heritage site in Istanbul ~ which has been a museum for almost a century and which has arguably symbolized its secular governance for all that time ~ and turning it into a mosque alongside 82,000 other ones, is, in your view, simply creating "another one"?
Yes.
@fmf saidIt's up to Turkey and their government.
So, the Turkish government, taking a Unesco World Heritage site in Istanbul ~ which has been a museum for almost a century and which has arguably symbolized its secular governance for all that time ~ and turning it into a mosque alongside 82,000 other ones, is, in your view, simply creating "another one"?
There is most likely still some resentment in these people from when Constantine and the Roman Christians took over their country. The Romans made Istanbul the Christian capital of Rome from 330 AD to 1453 AD. From not long before the Roman Capital and country fell in Italy.
I'm sure their still a little pissed that this was a Christian church until Rome was defeated there in 1453 AD. for good.
The Romans controlled all of Europe for over 1100 years from Istanbul through the Roman Catholic church; "Christendom." All until Henry the 8th. He broke the churches control over all of Europe; he started the domino effect anyway of countries breaking away. Plus, the Romans were defeated in Istanbul not long before.
Thoughts?
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@fmf saidShouldn't you be advising Jokowi instead of crabbing about what goes on in Turkey?
So, the Turkish government, taking a Unesco World Heritage site in Istanbul ~ which has been a museum for almost a century and which has arguably symbolized its secular governance for all that time ~ and turning it into a mosque alongside 82,000 other ones, is, in your view, simply creating "another one"?
@caesar-salad saidI suggest you start a thread about religion in Indonesia if that's what you want.
Shouldn't you be advising Jokowi instead of crabbing about what goes on in Turkey?
@kingdavid403 saidI don't think anyone disputes this as the land is owned by the Turkish government.
It's up to Turkey and their government.
@fmf saidThe church building itself should be what it was intended to be I suppose, but what concerns me more is Turkey’s regression into a religious state. Sitting as it does in the gateway to secular Europe Turkey will enjoy increasing influence as it leverages it geographic happenstance and flexes it’s military strength. A problem neighbour for Greece, Cyprus especially but also Eastern Europe in the future.
[quote]BBC: "The Hagia Sophia was built 1,500 years ago as an Orthodox Christian cathedral but was converted into a mosque after the Ottoman conquest in 1453.
"It was converted to a museum in 1934 on the orders of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the founding father of modern, secular Turkey.
"Since then religious services have been banned at the site, but devout Muslims have long ca ...[text shortened]...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53375739
What are your thoughts on this turn of events?