In another thread G75 said, "If he is referring to ones that we do meet at the doors that are not interested and are there to only argue then yes it is a waist of our time."
So evidently the JWs do have the concept of "time wasters" even though G75 said that he had "no idea where [I ] got this or what [I was] talking about."
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneAnd in another thread robbie will not even condemn slavery because his god endorses it. What a religion!
In another thread G75 said, "If he is referring to ones that we do meet at the doors that are not interested and are there to only argue then yes it is a waist of our time."
So evidently the JWs do have the concept of "time wasters" even though G75 said that he had "no idea where [I ] got this or what [I was] talking about."
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneOf course they have the concept of time wasters. Its integral to their drive. I inevitably wind up on that list sooner or later...
In another thread G75 said, "If he is referring to ones that we do meet at the doors that are not interested and are there to only argue then yes it is a waist of our time."
So evidently the JWs do have the concept of "time wasters" even though G75 said that he had "no idea where [I ] got this or what [I was] talking about."
Originally posted by caissad4From what I can tell, the subject matter is too close to their personal identities. If they were to admit the flaws, it'd be like admitting flaw in themselves. Their egos won't allow it. If you pay attention to how they behave when they're challenged, you see one ego defense mechanism after another.
And in another thread robbie will not even condemn slavery because his god endorses it. What a religion!
Originally posted by karoly aczelThat they do isn't a concern so much as their ability to both affirm and deny it without seeing the contradiction.
Of course they have the concept of time wasters. Its integral to their drive. I inevitably wind up on that list sooner or later...
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneVery true. Their silence reveals self-doubt.
From what I can tell, the subject matter is too close to their personal identities. If they were to admit the flaws, it'd be like admitting flaw in themselves. Their egos won't allow it. If you pay attention to how they behave when they're challenged, you see one ego defense mechanism after another.
When I was 17 I asked a rabbi (reformed) about this same thing. He answered the question quite quickly.
legit question so if you guys (JW's) don't pass out enough "Awakes" will you get dis-fellowshipped? Seriously what are the consequences ? I remember seeing the quota sheets. I mean will an elder get on you guys? Will the elder be like G75? Why are you not getting enough of these out? I'm trying not to be funny. How do you guys measure success?
Manny
Originally posted by caissad4Caissa Caissa who am i to question God? am i not but a simple man, imperfect, prone to a aberration and limited in the scope of my experience and wisdom? Can i create even a blade of grass? and here you are chastising me because i will not rebuke my God. The mere fact that some Israelite slaves chose to remain with their master when they were eligible for release is clear indication that slavery among God’s people was not abusive! You must distinguish between abusive slavery which is actually condemned and incompatible with scripture and the kind that was permitted and governed by laws and ordinances designed to protect those in servitude. Why should i rebuke God for that?
And in another thread robbie will not even condemn slavery because his god endorses it. What a religion!
Originally posted by menace71Lol, oh Manny of a thousand Manfreds, we only pass awake magazines to those who either request them (yes indeed some persons who are not witnesses like to read them for the content, believe it or not and request a copy every month) or who are interested enough to appreciate them. When we go from house to house we primarily use the Bible and ask people if they would be interested in a Bible study, magazines are generally only used if they show some interest or it covers something that they have raised. Where you get the idea of quotas from i do not know. Success is measured simply be being in the field ministry! for regardless of whether any one listens or not, we have given a witness by our mere presence!
legit question so if you guys (JW's) don't pass out enough "Awakes" will you get dis-fellowshipped? Seriously what are the consequences ? I remember seeing the quota sheets. I mean will an elder get on you guys? Will the elder be like G75? Why are you not getting enough of these out? I'm trying not to be funny. How do you guys measure success?
Manny
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRebuking your God and deliberately twisting the truth in his defense are two very different things. Too often I see you and other theists deliberately spreading misinformation, making false statements or claims our outright lying, because you think it will help you avoid rebuking your God.
...and here you are chastising me because i will not rebuke my God. The mere fact that some Israelite slaves chose to remain with their master when they were eligible for release is clear indication that slavery among God’s people was not abusive!
For example, your statement above is clearly false. The fact that some slaves choose to stay with their master does not indicate that slavery was not abusive. I can assure you that some slaves in US history chose to stay with their master even after being freed or were eligible to be freed, yet we both know that slavery in the US was not alway unabusive.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRob you're talking cobbblers now. Whitey has pointed it out above -
Caissa Caissa who am i to question God? am i not but a simple man, imperfect, prone to a aberration and limited in the scope of my experience and wisdom? Can i create even a blade of grass? and here you are chastising me because i will not rebuke my God. The mere fact that some Israelite slaves chose to remain with their master when they were elig ...[text shortened]... by laws and ordinances designed to protect those in servitude. Why should i rebuke God for that?
The mere fact that some Israelite slaves chose to remain with their master when they were eligible for release is clear indication that slavery among God’s people was not abusive.
Some slaves chose to remain, i'm not sure how you can take that to mean all slavery wasn't abusive?
What you should say is this -
The mere fact that some Israelite slaves chose to remain with their master when they were eligible for release is clear indication that some slavery among God’s people was not abusive.
Originally posted by robbie carrobiethinking of forming an Atheist state based on the model of the Khmer Rouge?
and why were you there? thinking of forming an Atheist state based on the model of the Khmer Rouge?
That's right Rob, you know me, always partial for spot of genocide first thing in the morning? Unfortunately if i did, i would be killed as i have a University education and i wear glasses. I wouldn't be up to scratch.
I have a friend who i went to Uni with who lives in Bangkok, i've popped over a couple of times to see him. When i'm there i take a little jaunt to different parts of SE Asia.
In response to slavery:
There are many things in the old testament that trouble even the most devout followers. For us to understand this issue we must look forward to the teachings of Christ. When asked about whether divorce was permissable he answered with the following:
Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery. (Matthew 19)
you see, divorce was not the optimal situation. It wasn't part of God's laws or plans, but was allowed because situations created by humans made it necessary. If men and women did what was right, there would be no need for divorce. It is a mitigating response to lessen the social impact and damage of a broken relationship.
slavery is similar in this regard. What must be done with someone who's debts are far beyond their ability to repay? In a perfect world, this wouldn't happen, but still a remedy must be found. People become bound by their debts. The remedy from a biblical perspective is to create "laws" which govern the ownership of slaves and create at least some room for justice and mercy. For instance, every seven years a slaves debts were forgiven, and they could be free. Many chose to remain in slavery for they were treated well, and fed and clothed (as by law).
Also in the new testament the word often used as slave can mean anyone who is dependant on another for survial. It could simply mean an employee.
The issue becomes more complicated when we read of enslaving other nations. Sometimes the actions of tyhat nation are so abhorant in the eyes of God and man that action must be taken. We read in Leviticus 18;
And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech.... Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you.
The meaning here is that the tribes surrounding Israel would burn their children alive as sacrifices. this is clearly an abomination. God of course had a remedy. The otherwise gentle people of Israel would conquer and capture them. In their captivity the sacrifices are no longer aloud, and the killings stop.
In no instance is slavery the first choice by God, but is rather a remedy for the sitiuations created by people, and hopefully a path to justice and mercy. It is allowed because our hearts can be hard, and the alternative is untenable.
In modern times we have slavery right here in the USA. Anyone have credit card debt? The types of interest they charge is against biblical teachings. That interest enslaves people. The average person paying a $10k credit card bill, if they make minimum payments, will pay for 25 years, and will pay 5 or 10 times the original debt and sometimes far more. This is slavery, but I don't see any of you railing against that.
If a person committs murder they are imprisoned for life. They are kept in close quarters, their movements are restricted and their freedom curtailed severly. They are also forced to work 40 hours a week for far less than minimum wage. Isn't this a form of slavery? I contend that it is...Yet the conditions warrant it don't they? So if we are open minded we can see that at least in some instances slavery can be a moral alternative.
In addition if a man was caught stealing he was forced to ake full restitution, if he could not do so he was sold into slavery Exodus 22:He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft The government also institutionalized slavery as a moral alternative. Nomadic tribes did not have the ability or wherewithall to build and maintain an extensive prison system.