Originally posted by @eladarWho said Im here to answer your question. Jesus is the judge of who is following and who is not. I dont talk about peoples works and how much they must do. I will leave that to fools like you. I state what the Bible says .:
Yes he will, but that does not answer my question.
- Jesus saves, all of mankind is saved by the blood of Christ
- To enter the Kingdom of God, good works are necessary, not optional
- Jesus will judge the works of people when the time comes.
Originally posted by @rajk999Be happy in your ignorance.
Who said Im here to answer your question. Jesus is the judge of who is following and who is not. I dont talk about peoples works and how much they must do. I will leave that to fools like you. I state what the Bible says .:
- Jesus saves, all of mankind is saved by the blood of Christ
- To enter the Kingdom of God, good works are necessary, not optional
- Jesus will judge the works of people when the time comes.
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Originally posted by @rajk999Two questions about the thief on the cross.
Who said Im here to answer your question. Jesus is the judge of who is following and who is not. I dont talk about peoples works and how much they must do. I will leave that to fools like you. I state what the Bible says .:
- Jesus saves, all of mankind is saved by the blood of Christ
- To enter the Kingdom of God, good works are necessary, not optional
- Jesus will judge the works of people when the time comes.
1. Did he enter the kingdom of God?
2. Was he saved by his works or by his faith?
Originally posted by @dj2beckerHis words reflected what was in his heart.
Two questions about the thief on the cross.
1. Did he enter the kingdom of God?
2. Was he saved by his works or by his faith?
Words are a work are they not?
As for other works, I afraid he didn't have much time and hus movement was severely limited.
Originally posted by @rajk999
A greater disrespect is your continued misrepresentation what I say. Both FMF and Ghost, two nonChristians have had to correct you on things you say about what I say. But I dont make that an issue or cause it to end the discussion.
Ok we will continue this discussion in about 10 yrs when you are either 22 or 45 😀
By the way this piece of nonsense ...[text shortened]... ect.
Lets talk again in 10 years time. Read your bible instead of swallowing church doctrine.
By the way this piece of nonsense
You cannot have doing without ever believing, you cannot have believing without ever talking.
is NOT IN THE BIBLE.
You make up stuff and fool yourself that you are correct.
If I have misrepresented you, my apologies. I try to quote exactly (even if words are misspelled) so there is no confusion. It benefits nobody to misrepresent and it is not a way I want to roll, I rather there be no confusion.
You cannot have doing without ever believing, you cannot have believing without ever talking.
Firstly, there must be believing before doing (You cannot have doing without ever believing), without it this there is nothing.
John 3:16 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
I believe that by believing, we accept all of what Jesus has spoken and commanded. However, you must get to the place of believing something before you can do something (or to act upon it). Thus ‘you cannot have doing without ever having believing. This is what I mean by this.
Is the quote ‘You cannot have doing without ever believing’ in the bible?, no of course not it’s my summary, but the principle is.
With that being said, I do not believe that you can have doing only without believing. In other words, works without believing. First there is believing, and as one grows and follows the teachings of Jesus comes doing (or works). These ideas are not mutually exclusive, one leads to the other, or should anyways. The everlasting life that Jesus speaks of does not depend on what we do (works), but totally on what Jesus has done? When we believe and do (works), we are trusting that what Jesus has spoken to be the truth, that is why we want to do works. One follows the other.
Galatians 2:14-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. 17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
Secondly, there must be talking before believing (you cannot have believing without ever talking).
Matthew 28:16-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
Teaching here means talking, generally it is by the way of a relationship (conversation, friendship, talking and respect) but not always. When one talks/teaches what Jesus commanded (the gospel), it leads to believing. Gods spirit speaks or quickens, convicts, etc. an individual unto repentance and believing Jesus. Repentance is not happening unless an individual has believed something, that something is believed when and individual has heard something, that by talking/teaching regarding God and are convicted. No believing without talking.
I am not one who believes it only takes believing in Jesus with nothing else to do (I think this is what you refer to mouth worship), but works should be an out-flowing of truly believing. I believe good works are a result from wanting to follow what Jesus taught. I do not believe it is works only that is what saves us or is required (lest we can boast), I think the bible is fairly clear on this. What saves us, what grants us eternal life is what Jesus has done on our behalf and how we respond to him.
Ephesians 2:7-12 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
I have explained myself and what I meant by my statement ‘You cannot have doing without ever believing, you cannot have believing without ever talking.’ honestly, I would have thought you would have known what I meant by it, I did not think it was a hard concept to follow, now I look like the arse, oh well. I cannot explain this any simpler, so please don’t ask me.
First belief, then works as an out-flowing from truly believing (‘wanting to do’ not ‘required to do’ as in I have to earn), talking and teaching as commanded then believing. In a nutshell.
You know a little of what I believe, so I don’t think it fair from this point on to lump me in with others unless they believe like I have stated, that would be dishonest and a misrepresentation. From what you say others believe, this differs from what I have stated, so don't do it. Hope that clarifies something for you, I tried.
Originally posted by @dj2becker1. No. he entered paradise. The Kingdom of God is not yet.
Two questions about the thief on the cross.
1. Did he enter the kingdom of God?
2. Was he saved by his works or by his faith?
2. He was judged to be righteous by Christ. Only Jesus knows the heart of man.
If you want to try that method of getting into the Kingdom of God, I suggest you wait until about 10 minutes before your death and then profess your faith in Christ. By all means give it a shot. If a common thief can get away with that then why cant you.
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Originally posted by @rajk999How is paradise different from the Kingdom of God?
1. No. he entered paradise. The Kingdom of God is not yet.
2. He was judged to be righteous by Christ. Only Jesus knows the heart of man.
If you want to try that method of getting into the Kingdom of God, I suggest you wait until about 10 minutes before your death and then profess your faith in Christ. By all means give it a shot. If a common thief can get away with that then why cant you.
Why so sarcastic? I'm asking you a serious question. Was he judged to be righteous based on his faith or his works?
Originally posted by @dj2beckerim sarcistic because some of you jokers behave as ir this is this first time you are asking these questions Have you lost your memory?
How is paradise different from the Kingdom of God?
Why so sarcastic? I'm asking you a serious question. Was he judged to be righteous based on his faith or his works?
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Originally posted by @rajk999You have never to my knowledge answered whether the thief on the cross was saved by faith or by his works. You are continually dodging the question and it's quite obvious why.
im sarcistic because some of you jokers behave as ir this is this first time you are asking these questions Have you lost your memory?
1 edit
Originally posted by @dj2becker to Rajk999He has answered the question many times and even answered it in a post - on this page - to which you replied but - surprise, surprise - you either didn't read or you just ignored it ... perhaps so that you could trot out your well-thumbed off-the-shelf 'You have never answered the question' punchline.
You have never to my knowledge answered whether the thief on the cross was saved by faith or by his works.
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Originally posted by @kellyjay
The love of God is beyond description. I do wonder what God is doing, Jesus said He was
going to prepare a place for us a couple thousand years ago. So God who is all seeing,
all knowing, all powerful, if He is building something for us...what could it be and what
does He have in mind for us? Boggles the mind, that this universe was put together in a
couple of days, what is next is well...something to look forward too. Just knowing it will
be without evil, and eternal is also mind blowing.
The building is a living one - a "habitation [or dwelling place] of God in spirit
"In whom you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in spirit." (Eph. 2:22)
He is building God into man. And He is building man (the saved) into God.
He went away to prepare a place for us when He went to the cross to accomplish eternal redemption. John 14:2 about Jesus going to prepare a place for His believers is not about Him going to heaven to prepare mansions.
It is about Jesus going to the cross to make a way for man to get into God Himself and for God to get into them for this corporate dwelling place of God and man - "the Father's house".
Again, He meant that He would go to the cross, die, shed His redeeming blood, rise again in resurrection to prepare a place for man to get into God as He Himself is the mingling of God and man.
Originally posted by @dj2beckerParadise is paradise and the Kingdom of God is the New Jerusalem.
How is paradise different from the Kingdom of God?
Why so sarcastic? I'm asking you a serious question. Was he judged to be righteous based on his faith or his works?
According to the Bible there are two places in the afterlife.
- A place of rest where good souls are taken - Paradise
- A place of torment where evil souls are taken - Hell
Then separate from that are the two Kingdoms yet to come
- The Kingdom on earth ruled over by Jesus lasting 1000yrs
- The kingdom of God, the New Jerusalem which comes after the reign of Christ
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Originally posted by @fmfHe said that he was judged to be righteous by Christ. He won't admit that it obviously was not because of his works so it must have been his faith that saved him.
He has answered the question many times and even answered it in a post - on this page - to which you replied but - surprise, surprise - you either didn't read or you just ignored it ... perhaps so that you could trot out your well-thumbed off-the-shelf 'You have never answered the question' punchline.