The love of God

Originally posted by @rajk999
Paradise is paradise and the Kingdom of God is the New Jerusalem.

According to the Bible there are two places in the afterlife.
- A place of rest where good souls are taken - Paradise
- A place of torment where evil souls are taken - Hell

Then separate from that are the two Kingdoms yet to come
- The Kingdom on earth ruled over by Jesus lasting 1000yrs
- The kingdom of God, the New Jerusalem which comes after the reign of Christ

Very poor analysis.
Not too good.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Paradise is paradise and the Kingdom of God is the New Jerusalem.

According to the Bible there are two places in the afterlife.
- A place of rest where good souls are taken - Paradise
- A place of torment where evil souls are taken - Hell

Then separate from that are the two Kingdoms yet to come
- The Kingdom on earth ruled over by Jesus lasting 1000yrs
- The kingdom of God, the New Jerusalem which comes after the reign of Christ

This sounds like your opinion, when you claim the Bible says something please provide a reference.

Originally posted by @sonship
Very poor analysis.
Not too good.

Tell me which of those four statements is wrong.

What you call a 'good' analysis is often incorrect. Here are some examples:

- you can analyse away the truth of Christian Saints being destroyed
- you twist and turn clear Bible statements so that Christians get eternal life no matter how evil while innocent are tortured in eternal fire for all eternity
- you analyse and analyse until you conclude that the commandments are not required for eternal life

Nobody in their right mind would care for your doctrine. It is corrupted and it is the road to damnation.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
This sounds like your opinion, when you claim the Bible says something please provide a reference.

Read the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Jesus is stating what happens to the soul of men. I started a thread called the Two Kingdoms, read the first two posts.

Try also to make an intelligent comment rather than just criticize. When I disagree with someone I post lots of RELEVANT REFERENCES. Try it.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Sometimes we focus too much upon the wrath of God that we forget about His love.

Sometimes we focus too much upon the wrath of Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot/Hitler that we forget about His love.

Please...

Originally posted by @fmf
He has answered the question many times and even answered it in a post - on this page - to which you replied but - surprise, surprise - you either didn't read or you just ignored it ... perhaps so that you could trot out your well-thumbed off-the-shelf 'You have never answered the question' punchline.

Oh, the irony is strong in this one.

Originally posted by @fabianfnas
Sometimes we focus too much upon the wrath of Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot/Hitler that we forget about His love.

Please...

Poor comparison Fabianfnas. What these men had was not wrath but pure contempt for human beings and anything that stood in the way of there personal agendas.

God's wrath is poured out upon sin, the very thing that separates us from him. Big difference.

Edit: a part of God's love is his wrath

Paradise is paradise and the Kingdom of God is the New Jerusalem.

Actually, the kingdom of God is a term which covers God's reign and government from eternity past into eternity future. The kingdom of God exists before the New Jerusalem exists.

The Kingdom of God encompasses before the foundation of the world and into eternity when the New Jerusalem is built from Christ's salvation.

It has some sections to it. But we know it is before the eternal future because Jesus told the Israelites that the kingdom of God would be taken from them and given to another nation producing its fruits. So it had to exist or it could not be taken and given to another people.

" Therefore I say to you that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and shall be given to a nations producing its fruit." (Matt. 21:43)

So my first correction is that "the kingdom of God" encompasses New Jerusalem yet is more than that.

Paradise is paradise ...

That is a little vague to deal with now in depth.
Paradise is used in a couple of senses in the Bible.

According to the Bible there are two places in the afterlife.
- A place of rest where good souls are taken - Paradise

One usage of "Paradise" in the New Testament is the pleasant section of Hades. It is also called "Abraham's bosom" (Luke 16:22) .

Abraham is the father of faith. And "Abraham's Bosom" or "Paradise" in this usage suggests that it is a realm where those who had faith in God have a pleasant experience in the realm of Hades, a sphere of departed immaterial part of man's being after physical death.

When Jesus was crucified He told one of the dying thieves who had faith in Him, that on that day he would be with Him in Paradise. He meant he would be with Jesus in the pleasant and restful portion of Hades. He did not mean that on that day he would be in Heaven but in Abraham's bosom or Paradise.

Paradise has another usage in Revelation 2:7 is the foretaste of New Jerusalem both in the church age and in the millennial kingdom. It is a foretaste of a fullest taste of eternity.

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him i will give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God."

This is a more divine and mystical reference to enjoying Jesus Christ as the divine life in a sphere which is a foretaste of the enjoyment of eternity. It is talking about the prevailing church life in a normal state. In a sense the saints have the reward already and just should be careful that no one robs them of their crown and enjoyment.

Much more could be said. That is enough for the moment.
And of course Paradise in the Old Testament was Eden in Genesis.
And it could also be used to describe the pre-adamic world where the Daystar was before he developed into Satan. (Ezek. 28:13).

- A place of torment where evil souls are taken - Hell

In the popular vanacular "Hell" is always imagined to be only punishment after death.
However, strictly speaking "Hell" or "Hades" is just the realm of the dead.

Hades is divided into two places that we know of - a pleasant restful section where the people of faith rest in Abraham's bosom and an unpleasant part where there is punishment.

Both sections are in "Hell" or "Hades" strictly speaking from the Bible.

i personally am usually cautious to mention that these are two sections that we know of.
How do I really know that in Hades there may be other sections?
I don't know and maybe there are only two - ie. Paradise and the other part.

Then separate from that are the two Kingdoms yet to come
- The Kingdom on earth ruled over by Jesus lasting 1000yrs
- The kingdom of God, the New Jerusalem which comes after the reign of Christ

New Jerusalem is not a place to which the saved are going as much as something the saved are becomming. Therefore every saved person is a future constituent of New Jerusalem.

The church life is a forestaste of the fuller taste to come.
Therefore we may have a foretaste of New Jerusalem today by receiving Jesus.

The writer of the book of Hebrews says that the participants of the new covenant HAVE COME to the heavenly Jerusalem. That is not will go but have come already. That is in the way of foretaste of a fuller enjoyment in eternity.

" But you have come forward to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the universal gathering;

And to the church of the firstborn, who have been enrolled in the heavens, and to God the Judge of all .... and to Jesus, the Mediator of a new covenant ... " (See Heb. 12:22-24)

This is about having a foretaste today of something much fuller to come. The saved HAVE COME to the city of God, the heavenly Jerusalem. Today we can enjoy something of the New Jerusalem in view of participating in Jesus Christ and the new covenant.

Originally posted by @sonship

Paradise is paradise and the Kingdom of God is the New Jerusalem.

Actually, the kingdom of God is a term which covers God's reign and government from eternity past into eternity future. The kingdom of God exists before the New Jerusalem exists.

The Kingdom of God encompasses before the foundation of the world and into eternity when ...[text shortened]... thing of the [b]New Jerusalem in view of participating in Jesus Christ and the new covenant.[/b]

I thank God for this gift that I have [as many others here do as well]. The ability to be brief and concise, and if asked for more details then I provide it. You have the mistaken impression that everyone wants to hear you go on at length when brevity is what is required. You need to learn when to be brief and when to get into details. Ask God for that gift, because right now you have that disease of ranting away and nobody is reading.

Anyway you have basically said the same thing i did.

New Jerusalem is an actual physical place. So says Revelation.

Originally posted by @leunammi

By the way this piece of nonsense
You cannot have doing without ever believing, you cannot have believing without ever talking.
is NOT IN THE BIBLE.
You make up stuff and fool yourself that you are correct.

If I have misrepresented you, my apologies. I try to quote exactly (even if words are misspelled) so there is no conf ...[text shortened]... iffers from what I have stated, so don't do it. Hope that clarifies something for you, I tried.

I disagree. Romans 2 speaks of people without law who follow the law written in their hearts. They know good and evil and they follow their conscience.

What do you make of that in the light of what you just wrote?

Originally posted by @rajk999
I disagree. Romans 2 speaks of people without law who follow the law written in their hearts. They know good and evil and they follow their conscience.

What do you make of that in the light of what you just wrote?

It really does not matter what I think. God will be the judge as he is able to see the hearts of men and I am not. Would you agree with that?

Originally posted by @leunammi
It really does not matter what I think. God will be the judge as he is able to see the hearts of men and I am not. Would you agree with that?

Of course, this I have been saying for years. I get a lot of flak from the Christians here who think they have a monopoly on Christ ... including you. Are you now changing?

Originally posted by @rajk999
Of course, this I have been saying for years. I get a lot of flak from the Christians here who think they have a monopoly on Christ ... including you. Are you now changing?

Never claimed a monopoly never implied either. What I know and understand is where I am and speak from that place. Changing? It is required as our minds are renewed.

Romans 12:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)

12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Originally posted by @leunammi
Never claimed a monopoly never implied either. What I know and understand is where I am and speak from that place. Changing? It is required as our minds are renewed.

Romans 12:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)

12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to ...[text shortened]... ewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Well from the place you speak you sure do condemn what I say .. all the time. You side with people who seem to disagree with what you say. Something is not right about that. But thats your choice.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Well from the place you speak you sure do condemn what I say .. all the time. You side with people who seem to disagree with what you say. Something is not right about that. But thats your choice.

Hmmm, don't believe I have condemned anyone, even you I have apologized if I felt I misrepresented you with something I may have said.

You side with people who seem to disagree with what you say.

Does this make sense? Something is not right about that.