19 Dec 06
Originally posted by jaywillYou might want to double-check who you're replying to.
Marauder,
[b]You do realise that the bible is the most inaccurate book of history ever, right?
Given your propensity to lie, I would not turn to you for insight into the accuracy of the Bible's facts.
Apathy must bread dishonesty in some people, especially those who don't believe such a thing as sin exists or who are sensationalists by nature.
We're through.[/b]
19 Dec 06
Originally posted by jaywillYou obviously continue to read crib notes, not the Bible. Matthew 16: 19 says:
[b]
The vast majority of translations, including the most prominent one use Kingdom of Heaven throughout Matthew. You concede as much, so you make a lousy umpire.
You make a poor sport. There are different MSS of the Greek New Testament. IF Darby, Rotherham, and the NIV Greek-Interlinear among others translate ”kingdom of the heavens” they ...[text shortened]... n falling back on “guilt by association” when you don’t know what you’re talking about.[/b]
19 I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Giving Peter the "keys to the Kingdom of Heaven" is metaphorical language; you don't actually think Jesus handed a key ring to Peter, do you? Christ is establishing his Church and making Peter the head of it; the Church is "the key to the Kingdom of Heaven". But the Kingdom of Heaven itself awaits Judgment Day as shown by numerous citations throughout Matthew including the Sermon on the Mount.
19 Dec 06
I also give you Matthew 25: 1-14:
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were foolish, and five were wise.
3 For the foolish, when they took their lamps, took no oil with them:
4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 Now while the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 But at midnight there is a cry, Behold, the bridegroom! Come ye forth to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are going out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Peradventure there will not be enough for us and you: go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went away to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage feast: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know not the day nor the hour.
The day and the hour of what, jaywill? The coming of the Kingdom of Heaven which didn't happen at the Pentecost.
19 Dec 06
5 edits
Originally posted by no1marauderThe ERRORS of no1marauder:
You obviously continue to read crib notes, not the Bible. Matthew 16: 19 says:
19 I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Giving Peter the "keys to the Kingdom of Heaven" is metaphorical langu nt Day as shown by numerous citations throughout Matthew including the Sermon on the Mount.
Peter is not the Head of the Church, Christ is. "And He [Christ] is the Head of the Body, the church" (Col.1:18)
You misquoted the verse because it is plural "keys" not singular "key". You wrote at once instance " the key [sic] to the Kingdom of Heaven".
Many bibles have so called "crib notes". It is plain stupid of you to insinuate that "crib notes" are in and of themselves not to be consulted.
Of course I don't take them as literal keys. I think you know that. The gospel messages which Peter gave were the "keys" which opened the door to "the church" and people were added to the church (Acts 2:42; 2:47; 5:14)
Paul writes that the constituents of the new testament church have past tense "been transfered into the kingdom of the Son of His love" (Col. 1:13)
"the Father ... Who delivered us out of the authority of darkness and transfered us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."
Not Will transfer on Judgment day, but Has transfered us into the kingdom.
And thanks for the free advertizement. I highly recommend to the readers the Recovery Version of the Bible with its excellent footnotes, which this poster has not been able to prove are incorrect.
www.recoveryversion.org if you are interested, anyone.
19 Dec 06
Originally posted by jaywillThe idiocy of jaywill:
The ERRORS of no1marauder:
Peter is not the Head of the Church, Christ is. [b]"And He [Christ] is the Head of the Body, the church" (Col.1:18)
You misquoted the verse because it is plural "keys" not singular "key". You wrote at once instance " the key [sic] to the Kingdom of Heaven".
Many bibles have so called "crib notes". It is p ...[text shortened]... e are incorrect.
www.recoveryversion.org if you are interested, anyone.[/b]
Don't bother quoting me Paul when I have Jesus' words. Peter was the "rock" upon which Christ built his Church and was the head of it as declared by Jesus himself.
Please show where I "misquoted the verse".
"Crib notes" are for the intellectually lazy. And it's perfectly clear that you rely on them exclusively.
19 Dec 06
2 edits
Originally posted by no1marauderWrong again.
I also give you Matthew 25: 1-14:
1 Then shall the [b]kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were foolish, and five were wise.
3 For the foolish, when they took their lamps, took no oil with them:
4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with ...[text shortened]... our of what, jaywill? The coming of the Kingdom of Heaven which didn't happen at the Pentecost.[/b]
The kingdom is in stages. During the church age it is in one stage. After the second coming of Christ it continues on in another stage. But it is the SAME kingdom:
"And He said, So is the kingdom of God: as if a man cast seed on the earth and sleeps and rises night and day, and the seed sprouts and lengthens - how he does not know.
the earth bears fruit of itself: first a blade, then an ear, then fullgrain in the ear,
But when the fruit is ripe, immediately he sends forth the sickle, because the harvest has come" (Mark 4:26-29)
The kingdom Christ came to establish is a matter of Christ growing within people. At every stage of this growth unto maturity it is still the kingdom of God. From the seed to the harvest, from planting to ripeness it is still the kingdom of God.
So the kingdom of the heavens (part of the kingdom of God) started at Pentecost and not only after judgment day.
19 Dec 06
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillWhere in the Bible does it say that the "Kingdom of Heaven" (that is what we are talking about) "comes in stages"? Nowhere of course. What is the meaning of the parable of the bridesmaids? You have no clue. Go read some more crib notes; it's obvious that reading and thinking for yourself is beyond your capability.
Wrong again.
The kingdom is in stages. During the church age it is in one stage. After the second coming of Christ it continues on in another stage. But it is the SAME kingdom:
[b/]"And He said, So is the kingdom of God: as if a man cast seed on the earth and sleeps and rises night and day, and the seed sprouts and lengthens - how he does not know. ...[text shortened]... he kingdom of God.
So the kingdom started at Pentecost and not only after judgment day.
19 Dec 06
6 edits
Originally posted by no1marauderStop your bluffing. You are trying to make "crib notes" the issue. And it is not the issue, for one thing, though you are trying to divert the subject into an argument about the use of crib notes. Then you say they show intellectual laziness.
The idiocy of jaywill:
Don't bother quoting me Paul when I have Jesus' words. Peter was the "rock" upon which Christ built his Church and was the head of it as declared by Jesus himself.
Please show where I "misquoted the verse".
"Crib notes" are for the intellectually lazy. And it's perfectly clear that you rely on them exclusively.
This is stupid. If I read only notes and not the Bible perhaps that might be true. But I don't. Perhaps you're the one who only reads some notes from your sources and not the Bible text itself. I think your telling us about yourself.
And now you come out with the old "I'm for Jesus, not for Paul".
If you are not for the Apostles of Christ you're not for Christ. They were sent ones of Christ. Pure idiocy. Christ is the Head of the Body the church.
Besides this I already explained that the kingdom Christ established is in stages of growth and maturity. (Mark 4:26-29).
Oh, brother Mark is traditionally reported to have been the personal assistant to the Apostle Peter. So he should know something about what Peter taught and what Jesus gave him to teach.
Mark records Christ as teaching that the kingdom of God (which includes the kingdom of the heavens) is like a growing seed. At every stage of its development it is the kingdom.
John's gospel has it that we enter into the kingdom by being born again. (See John chapter 3).
And going back to Matthew the keys to the kingdom of the heavens were given to Peter. This does not mean that Peter is in Heaven opening the gate after Judgement Day. Nor does it mean that he has literal keys.
Peter's gispel messages in the book of Acts were the opening of the doors of the new testament church to all those who were believers in his gospel message.
It is in the church age that the binding and loosening prayers of authority are excercised. And this is proved by the reference to the church in Matthew 18:17,18.
Compare Matthew 16:19 with Matthew 18:17,18 and you will see that the authoritative binding and loosening of the disciples, of whom Peter was a leader, refers to the activities of the church. And that is before judgment day.
19 Dec 06
3 edits
This poster no1marauder wants to divert the issue into a debate about the use of crib notes which he says are a indication of laziness.
Just for the record - the footnotes of the RcV (Recovery Version of the Bible published by LSM) are actually exerpts of a entire exposition of the Bible which was done from 1974 on into the 1990s. In other words every book and chapter of the Bible was expounded in the Life Study of the Bible by Witness Lee.
Certain exerpts of those extensive messages on the entire 66 books of the Bible were selected as samples of expoundings and included in one version of the RcV. You can also get an RcV WITHOUT footnotes.
Expounding the entire Bible over two and or three decades is not the activity of the lazy. And I catagorically reject the charge that just because I said something similiar or even quoted a footnote that betrays laziness.
This poster no1maruader cannot bluff me. I read, I enjoy, I study, live in the reading of the Bible more than he does.
19 Dec 06
Originally posted by jaywillNutjob, nobody said the Church wouldn't have any activities before Judgment Day. Where do you come up with such bilge? But the Kingdom of Heaven ain't here yet and it won't be until Judgment Day according to Jesus.
Stop your bluffing. You are trying to make "crib notes" the issue. And it is not the issue, for one thing, though you are trying to divert the subject into a argument about the use of crib notes. Then you say they show intellectual laziness.
This is stupid. If I read only notes and not the Bible perhaps that might be true. But I don't. Perhaps you're ...[text shortened]... was a leader, refers to the activities of the church. And that is before judgment day.
19 Dec 06
Originally posted by no1marauderMaybe the kingdom is not here for YOU.
Nutjob, nobody said the Church wouldn't have any activities before Judgment Day. Where do you come up with such bilge? But the Kingdom of Heaven ain't here yet and it won't be until Judgment Day according to Jesus.
Speak for yourself if you have nothing to do with Christ the King or His kingdom TODAY.
Romans 14:17 - For the kingdom of God IS NOT eating and drinking, BUT righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit"
The kingdom today is righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. And the context of Romans 14 is the normal church life in the new covenant age.
After the second coming of Christ the kingdom of the heavens continues in another stage of its development.
19 Dec 06
Originally posted by jaywillThese guys?
This poster no1marauder wants to divert the issue into a debate about the use of crib notes which he says are a indication of laziness.
Just for the record - the footnotes of the RcV (Recovery Version of the Bible published by LSM) are actually exerpts of a entire exposition of the Bible which was done from 1974 on into the 1990s. In other words every bo ...[text shortened]... r cannot bluff me. I read, I enjoy, I study, live in the reading of the Bible more than he does.
Living Stream Ministry, the publishing arm of the Local Church, publishes the "Recovery Version" of the Bible:
The extensive footnotes written by Witness Lee and the Scripture text found in this edition are supportive of the beliefs and practices of the movement. Footnotes from the Book of Revelation state that denominational groups are spiritual fornicators for taking on names other than that of Christ (Baptist, Presbyterian, Anglican, etc), that Christianity is degraded for taking on these denominational names, that denominational groups are the harlot daughters of the Whore of Babylon, and that Protestantism, Roman Catholicism, and Judaism have become an organization used by Satan as a tool to damage God's economy (a la Lee).
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/l40.html#recoveryversion
How's the cult, jaywill?
19 Dec 06
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderYou were talking about the shortage of actual research and intellectual laziness?
These guys?
Living Stream Ministry, the publishing arm of the Local Church, publishes the "Recovery Version" of the Bible:
The extensive footnotes written by Witness Lee and the Scripture text found in this edition are supportive of the beliefs and practices of the movement. Footnotes from the Book of Revelation state that denominational ://www.apologeticsindex.org/l40.html#recoveryversion
How's the cult, jaywill?
So where are you cutting and pasting your "crib notes" from?
Hypocrit.
Oh the so called "cult" is fine. Too bad you had to jump to another subject since you were getting trounced on the original one.
19 Dec 06
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauder"Crib notes" are for the intellectually lazy. And it's perfectly clear that you rely on them exclusively.
The idiocy of jaywill:
Don't bother quoting me Paul when I have Jesus' words. Peter was the "rock" upon which Christ built his Church and was the head of it as declared by Jesus himself.
Please show where I "misquoted the verse".
"Crib notes" are for the intellectually lazy. And it's perfectly clear that you rely on them exclusively.
It is perfectly clear that you're speaking according to your desire of what you wish to be true and do not know the facts, nor me, nor the New Testament terribly well.
19 Dec 06
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillYou don't need to take my word for it that the bible is inaccurate; there are plenty of studies on the numerous contradictions contained within it.
Marauder,
[b]You do realise that the bible is the most inaccurate book of history ever, right?
Given your propensity to lie, I would not turn to you for insight into the accuracy of the Bible's facts.
Apathy must bread dishonesty in some people, especially those who don't believe such a thing as sin exists or who are sensationalists by nature.
We're through.[/b]
Also it is widely known that it is a hotchpotch of accounts, many second hand rewritten time and time again hundreds of years later.
Your reply to my post is a classic example of such "chinese whispers" in affect. You mistakenly replied to me thinking I was No1Marauder.
Do you see how easily history gets distorted?
Do you realise how fraught it is to base your entire life on one dodgy, ancient book?
Or are you stupid enough to believe the book of lies to be the word of God?