Originally posted by jaywillNobody's life goes on after they're sent to hell.
[b]
After a child gets spanked or sent to their room, their life goes on. The point of those corrections is to improve behavior later on.
If this is your complaint then why do I not see every single sinful act in the Bible immediately followed by a sentencing by God to eternal punishment?
Cain commited the first murder of his brother Abel. Then h ...[text shortened]... t justice has caught up to them.
Everyone's conscience will one day catch up with them.[/b]
I am not speaking to other corrective disciplines God may or may not use; my only argument is against the use of hell as punishment.
Can someone get out of hell once they're in it? If not, they're trapped there. I think anyone, once they were in hell, would do anything to get out. Even a disdain for God would be quickly be abandoned if it is as bad a place as is claimed.
Your claim that people go to hell because they want nothing to with God is bunk. Remember, according to the bible, there are those who cast out demons and performed many miracles, yet were sent to hell. Those people were doing what they could to curry favor with God, yet that wasn't good enough.
Ok, let's further continue with your version of my analogy. I steal something. I get caught. Father comes down, orders my death. I ask for mercy. He calls up his Son. He hands the police a gun, and says "Shoot my son so this thief can leave". The policeman does so, while the father callously walks away, ignoring his son's pleas for mercy. This is the act that 'saves' me? Yeah, right. 🙄
I don't need or want God to settle all the scores at the end, especially if he hands out the same sentence to both mass-murderers and adulterers (when adultery can be as simple as looking at a woman to lust after her).
I've given Christianity more than equal time. I was a Christian for 20 years, before finally freeing myself from it.
Originally posted by jaywillMore proof that you don't even read the Bible; the phrase "kingdom of the heavens" isn't used in Matthew at all!
Okay, no1marauder.
If you think you understand the book of Matthew so much better than I then tell me - what is [b]"the kingdom of the heavens" mentioned so many times in the book of Matthew?
What is it?[/b]
The closest to the phrase is in Matthew 19:12:
12 For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake.
Note it's "heaven's" with a possessive, not "heavens" plural.
EDIT: I did a search on biblegateway.com for the phrase "Kingdom of the Heavens" in the American Standard Version and King James Version and came up with no passage that uses this phrase.
Originally posted by jaywillWell, I might grant you number 3 if it came with qualification. Yes, more or less there does exist an extended group of people who delight in the same methods of self-delusion as yourself.
Here are ten points of benefit that I derive from being a Christain:
1.) I know where I came from.
2.) I know why I exist and why I am here.
3.) I have a world wide loving family of brothers and sisters whose love is quite warm and practical.
4.) I know where human history has its destination.
5.) I have forgiveness of sins.
6.) I hav ...[text shortened]... on of God
10.) Death and sin and emptiness and vanity are conquered and under my feet.
Concerning the other claims, no.
Originally posted by jaywillCuckoo. cuckoo. cuckoo.
Loser Howardgee?
Well, let me explore this a little. Here are ten points of benefit that I derive from being a Christain:
1.) I know where I came from.
2.) I know why I exist and why I am here.
3.) I have a world wide loving family of brothers and sisters whose love is quite warm and practical.
4.) I know where human history has its d ...[text shortened]... f I drop my Christian faith and take up your philisophy (whatever it is), what will it offer me?
Originally posted by FreakyKBHIf a rational agent lacks belief in God in the absence of sufficient evidence or in the presence of countervailing evidence, then God will toss the person in hell? That's really compassionate of Him.
The only folks who go to hell go there for their unbelief.
Besides, you haven't ever explained how a rational agent can be morally responsible for belief (or lack thereof). Belief-building is not a wholly active process for a rational agent.
Instead of 'belief', maybe you mean something closer to 'faith', in which the person often willfully (and irrationally) adheres to darling propositions even in the face of countervailing evidence. But even there your claim still makes no sense since no reasonable god would consider faith something to be valued; and since no reasonable creator would endow us with rationality only to punish us in cruel ways if we don't suspend it.
Originally posted by LemonJelloTwo have replied. Neither have spelled out any benefits of their own philosophy over my experience with Jesus Christ.
Well, I might grant you number 3 if it came with qualification. Yes, more or less there does exist an extended group of people who delight in the same methods of self-delusion as yourself.
Concerning the other claims, no.
As if I was waiting for you to "grant" me the Son of God.
I've given Christianity more than equal time. I was a Christian for 20 years, before finally freeing myself from it.
Who said anything abut an "anity"? Was I talking about "anity"? No I wasn't. I have been talking about Christ the living Person.
By the way. I said your understanding was warped. We all are somewhat warped in our view because our minds have been damaged by sin.
Difference is some of us know from Whom we can get a salvation - Jesus.
One punishment fits all? One died for all that all may be saved and that all sins may be forgiven.
Originally posted by jaywill
1.) I know where I came from.
No, you believe you know where you came from, just as I do.
2.) I know why I exist and why I am here.
Me too, great isn't it?
3.) I have a world wide loving family of brothers and sisters whose love is quite warm and practical.
Are all christians equally loving and practical? I think not.
4.) I know where human history has its destination.
Again; no, you believe you know.
5.) I have forgiveness of sins.
I don't believe in sin, so we both end up the same.
6.) I have the Spirit of God living in me impowering me to live Christ.
I wonder what live Christ is like, is it like live music? I am empowered by just existing, I need no infusing with anything.
7.) I have eternal life.
You believe you have eternal life, but it's still a gamble as to whether god will let you into heaven or not. Why does it bother you that life is not eternal?
8.) I am building up the kingdom of God which I know will prevail in the end.
You sure do claim to have knowledge of a lot of things which are really inconsistent. You know not what will happen in the future, unless you're a seer maybe, do you have visions?
9.) I am becoming a son of God and brother of Jesus the Firstborn Son of God
Err... right, hope that works out for you...
10.) Death and sin and emptiness and vanity are conquered and under my feet.
Lol, aren't you just the all powerful conqueror, you do know that pride is a sin...
Now if I drop my Christian faith and take up your philisophy (whatever it is), what will it offer me?
A critical mind, a refusal to accept things you are told without evidence, a realistic view of existence and a lack of contradiction. The power of reason over desire and possibly even a lack of guilt and an acceptance of your impending cessation of life.