16 Dec 06
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Originally posted by FreakyKBHWould one straight answer be tooooooooooooooo much to ask?
Rather clearly you fail to understand the magnificence of the creature whom He called Man. By definition, anything created is dependent upon its creator to some degree or another. Even in his fallen state, the intelligence and creativity that has been evidenced by man in human history shows your spin of such a state of dependency as little more than a pathetic stab at negativity.
Why does SuperDuper God care if such an inferior "creature" as Man sings his glories or not?
EDIT: I'm fully aware of the "magnificence of Man". In fact, that's why I see no need to create an Entity that acts just like Man, but has superduper, magical powers.
16 Dec 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyAs far as I know Jesus never talked about the Original Sin, and it was not part of his teaching, although you claim it was his main Job in earth.
1. The entire paragraph comes from the orthodox biblical view of sin and the saving work of Christ.
I asked you about Jesus view of his work not the orthodox Biblical view. As far as I know Jesus never talked about the Original Sin, and it was not part of his teaching, although you claim it was his main Job in earth.
2. Seriously? Are you re ...[text shortened]... s work before the cross, do you understand that, to die on the cross didn't mean anything.
There are more than a few things not directly uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ which are nonetheless very much part of the Christian life. To take such a simplistic view of the spiritual life as 'red-letter' narrow-mindedness is unprofitable for any growth.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
The misinterpretation here is simply an issue of timing. You wish to put meaning where no meaning is intended. When the Lord Jesus Christ uttered the phrase "it is finished," was the moment the sin barrier was removed.
16 Dec 06
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThere are more than a few things not directly uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ which are nonetheless very much part of the Christian life. To take such a simplistic view of the spiritual life as 'red-letter' narrow-mindedness is unprofitable for any growth.
[b]As far as I know Jesus never talked about the Original Sin, and it was not part of his teaching, although you claim it was his main Job in earth.
There are more than a few things not directly uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ which are nonetheless very much part of the Christian life. To take such a simplistic view of the spiritual life as 'red-let ...[text shortened]... esus Christ uttered the phrase "it is finished," was the moment the sin barrier was removed.[/b]
I know that, and that made my point, most of christian faith is not taken from Jesus. I mean you don't follow Jesus. And if the one you belive in didn't say what you belive, then why do you belive it.
The misinterpretation here is simply an issue of timing. You wish to put meaning where no meaning is intended. When the Lord Jesus Christ uttered the phrase "it is finished," was the moment the sin barrier was removed.
Do you mean that the sin was removed before the cross?
Do you mean that the cross and blood sacrifice is not needed?
Do you mean that your faith is not correct?
16 Dec 06
Originally posted by no1marauderWhy does SuperDuper God care if such an inferior "creature" as Man sings his glories or not?
Would one straight answer be tooooooooooooooo much to ask?
Why does SuperDuper God care if such an inferior "creature" as Man sings his glories or not?
EDIT: I'm fully aware of the "magnificence of Man". In fact, that's why I see no need to create an Entity that acts just like Man, but has superduper, magical powers.
You project onto God human frailities and specifically, a supposed need for approbation. As usual, blashphemous ignorant spoutings of a silly little man who never grew out of a inordinate desire to be considered smart. Lacking the required equipment, you instead seek confirmation for your contrarian viewpoints with feeble attacks against those espousing the conflicting opinion. The disappointing part is that you appear to be well-versed in debate, making the absence of credible support all the more acute. How much better it would be engaging in honest dialogue with a someone accomplished at debate and equally armed with an informed opinion.
God's only concern with respect to where glory goes is His faithfulness to truth. Anything less than 'all glory' is a lie. Is that a straight enough response for you?
16 Dec 06
Originally posted by ahosyney...most of christian faith is not taken from Jesus. I mean you don't follow Jesus. And if the one you belive in didn't say what you belive, then why do you belive it.
There are more than a few things not directly uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ which are nonetheless very much part of the Christian life. To take such a simplistic view of the spiritual life as 'red-letter' narrow-mindedness is unprofitable for any growth.
I know that, and that made my point, most of christian faith is not taken from Jesus. I mean ...[text shortened]... he cross and blood sacrifice is not needed?
Do you mean that your faith is not correct?[/b]
Because very little of the Christian life is numerated by Jesus. This job (the nuts and bolts of the everyday spiritual life) was relegated to the apostles. Chief among those who delineated that life was Paul.
Do you mean that the sin was removed before the cross?
No.
Do you mean that the cross and blood sacrifice is not needed?
The blood was not what cleansed and rid us of sin; the blood of earlier sacrifices was representative of His work on the cross. He bore our sins in His body. Having finished that work, He gave His life up willingly. Whatever the means of His physical death, death was the natural consequence of His life's work being finished.
Do you mean that your faith is not correct?
If I thought so, I likely wouldn't persist now would I?
17 Dec 06
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Originally posted by FreakyKBHNow I understand that you follow Paul not Jesus.
[b]...most of christian faith is not taken from Jesus. I mean you don't follow Jesus. And if the one you belive in didn't say what you belive, then why do you belive it.
Because very little of the Christian life is numerated by Jesus. This job (the nuts and bolts of the everyday spiritual life) was relegated to the apostles. Chief among those who de that your faith is not correct?[/b]
If I thought so, I likely wouldn't persist now would I?[/b]
do you think that Jesus agrees with Paul?
How can you be sure that Paul was correct? Why do you belive that his is apostle?
The blood was not what cleansed and rid us of sin; the blood of earlier sacrifices was representative of His work on the cross. He bore our sins in His body. Having finished that work, He gave His life up willingly. Whatever the means of His physical death, death was the natural consequence of His life's work being finished.
I'm sorry but as I know I think what you said is not correct. At least that is not what most of Christians belive. My be I'm wrong, but I know that Christian belive that sin is removed by his sacrifice on the cross, nothing else.
If he didn't die on the cross, sin wouldn't have been forgiven.
Note: Don't think I don't belive in GOD, I belive in GOD may be more than you , but I belive you belive in the wrong GOD.
17 Dec 06
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Originally posted by FreakyKBHNo, it is not. The Bible projects unto God human frailities like jealously (an attribute God supposedly admits to), not me. All you ever do is spout gibberish coupled with infantile attempts at the ridicule of others who are far more logical in their thinking. Basically, you're a fanatical, bigoted loudmouth who thinks he's part of the special few who will get into the celestial Studio 54 but who really can't support his close minded view of the universe with any actual evidence except the rantings of semi-savages. And even there you constantly ignore the actual wording and torture them into the Procrustean bed of your peculiar belief system with the excuse only the properly anointed like yourself can "really" understand.
[b]Why does SuperDuper God care if such an inferior "creature" as Man sings his glories or not?
You project onto God human frailities and specifically, a supposed need for approbation. As usual, blashphemous ignorant spoutings of a silly little man who never grew out of a inordinate desire to be considered smart. Lacking the required equipment, you uth. Anything less than 'all glory' is a lie. Is that a straight enough response for you?[/b]
Your God looks very much like the egostical prima donna that you must see in the mirror every day except you've given him superduper powers to punish those who have made you look like a fool. Sorta a "Wait till my father gets home" story that a 5 year old blurts out, but at least the child's version has some nexus with truth (HIS father probably will come home) while your's is a fairy tale to make bitter little men like you feel better about yourselves.
17 Dec 06
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Originally posted by no1marauderCould you point out to us where jealousy is attributed to God?
No, it is not. The Bible projects unto God human frailities like jealously (an attribute God supposedly admits to), not me. All you ever do is spout gibberish coupled with infantile attempts at the ridicule of others who are far more logical in their thinking. Basically, you're a fanatical, bigoted loudmouth who thinks he's part of the special few who wi our's is a fairy tale to make bitter little men like you feel better about yourselves.
If your spouse was unfaithful to you in a chronic way, would not some degree of jealousy on your part be a normal and healthy reaction or fraility?
If you could imagine no justified jealousy you must not be able to imagine a desire for true devotion in love.
17 Dec 06
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It is too bad that I can't point to one an a half responses to my posts which have to do with the rtopic of the process the Triune God passed through.
What about "the Word became flesh" (John 1:14)? What about "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)?
Can anyone see and appreciate these two great BECAMES in the New Testament?
Can anyone see God passing through these two great BECAMES to fulfill His plan?
17 Dec 06
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Originally posted by ahosyneyNow I understand that you follow Paul not Jesus.
Now I understand that you follow Paul not Jesus.
do you think that Jesus agrees with Paul?
How can you be sure that Paul was correct? Why do you belive that his is apostle?
The blood was not what cleansed and rid us of sin; the blood of earlier sacrifices was representative of His work on the cross. He bore our sins in His body. Having in GOD, I belive in GOD may be more than you , but I belive you belive in the wrong GOD.
Your understanding is flawed, naive and ill-informed. Once you understand the principle ministry aspects of the Christ, the issue will make more sense to you. The Christian life is decidedly not the Gospel, nor did God ever design it to be mistakenly lived as such. The Gospel was specifically designed for one group of people, and one group only: unbelievers. The message within the four Gospels were written for specific groups of people, application dependent upon the context. It is a grave mistake to attempt a life lived by the messages within.
do you think that Jesus agrees with Paul?
No, but Paul does agree with Jesus. You know, the whole cart and horse thing.
How can you be sure that Paul was correct? Why do you belive that his is apostle?
The apologetics of this discussion would take more time than you are willing to sacrifice.
At least that is not what most of Christians belive.
Not the most compelling argument, I'm afraid. "Most" Christians use the Bible to justify all manner of arrogance and ignorance. Christ said 'it is finished' to signify the completed work.
Don't think I don't belive in GOD, I belive in GOD may be more than you , but I belive you belive in the wrong GOD.
I don't recall declaring a lack of belief on your part. I was equally unaware there existed degrees of belief. Learn something new everyday, that's my motto.
17 Dec 06
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Originally posted by jaywillLMAO! Have you ever actually opened a Bible?
Could you point out to us where jealousy is attributed to God?
If your spouse was unfaithful to you in a chronic way, would not some degree of jealousy on your part be a normal and healthy reaction or fraility?
If you could imagine no justified jealousy you must not be able to imagine a desire for true devotion in love.
Exodus 20:5: 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
See also: Exodus 34:14
Deuteronomy 4:24; 5:9; 6:15
Joshua 24:19
Nahum 1:2 (Superduper God is also "full of wrath" apparently)
17 Dec 06
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Originally posted by BigDoggProblemYou are not forced to take Christ the life giving Spirit into you. You are not forced to receive Christ.
Sentencing and condemnation have everything to do with this topic. It changes the perspective of your drinker. The drink's now being forced on him.
You're right: you need no further 'deception', because you already believe a deception more elaborate than any that I could fashion.
You are not forced. You are invited.
"If anyone thirst, let him come unto Me and drink ...." (John 7:37)
Where is the forcing in this invitation? Perhaps you want to not thirst and also not come unto Him and drink. Then you may imagine a reality which does not exist.
Or perhaps you feel forced because you want to have sin and get awat with it also. And since there is a final Governor of this universe your feel "forced" to be saved by Him from condemnation.
Didn't you know that you are not forced to be saved?
I am free to jump out of a 30 story window. I may not be free to change the consequences of my choice to jump out of a window.
I may feel like I want to jump out of a window. When the law of gravity takes over and I am plunging to my death I cannot now say "But I don't FEEL like falling. That is not fair."
The law of gravity will not care how you feel.
You are free to reject God. You are free to turn your back on Jesus Christ. You are free to feel that you don't like Christ. You are not free to change the consequences of turning away from God. There are laws which make it impossible for you to escape the consequences of rebelling against God.
But if you say "That is not fair. I am forced to receive God" that is not true. At least in eternal damnation you will have the dubious "happiness" of knowing that you stood your ground and never received God.
You are not forced to receive the all-inclusive life giving Spirit to quench your thirst for life. Isn't it true that you have had many years of some happiness without Jesus Christ?
The Holy Spirit is symbolized by a dove in the New Testament, not by a Condor or an Eagle. When has God coerced you or forced you?
17 Dec 06
Originally posted by no1marauderThe Bible projects unto God human frailities like jealously (an attribute God supposedly admits to), not me.
No, it is not. The Bible projects unto God human frailities like jealously (an attribute God supposedly admits to), not me. All you ever do is spout gibberish coupled with infantile attempts at the ridicule of others who are far more logical in their thinking. Basically, you're a fanatical, bigoted loudmouth who thinks he's part of the special few who wi ...[text shortened]... our's is a fairy tale to make bitter little men like you feel better about yourselves.
True. Language of accomodation is employed throughout the Bible, mostly in the OT. However, you take it to illogical extremes tantamount to blasphemy. It is blasphemous to liken God to a teenage girl in a frantic search for happiness.
All you ever do is spout gibberish coupled with infantile attempts at the ridicule of others who are far more logical in their thinking.
No, every once and awhile I actually raise to the level of adult attempts at ridiculing others in possession of superior logical thinking. Give me some credit.
Basically, you're a fanatical, bigoted loudmouth who thinks he's part of the special few who will get into the celestial Studio 54 but who really can't support his close minded view of the universe with any actual evidence except the rantings of semi-savages.
Flattery will get you no where. I giggle thinking of how unfanatical I am, as evidenced by anyone in my periphery. By that, I don't mean most people would not describe me as fanatical, but rather, no one would describe me as fanatical.
Another one of my mottos is 'live and let live,' which pretty much wrecks your charge of bigotry. Sure, anyone can say they're the most accepting and gracious person on the planet. However, you have a year's worth of posts from yours truly at your beck and call. Peruse that voluminous cornucopia of knowledge nuggets and see if you can find even one post which a reasonable person would justifiably assume its author a bigot. Betcha can't!
And as far as the supposed sparse crowd at the celestial club goes, I am under no such false impression. The Bible speaks of an overwhelming number of people populating the heavenly abode, not a small crowd of FBL's. This view is fully supported by the Bible, which (in my view) is the best evidence possible.
Your God looks very much like the egostical prima donna that you must see in the mirror every day except you've given him superduper powers to punish those who have made you look like a fool.
God is as foreign to me as anything could possibly be. While I will certainly know Him when I see His face, what I do know of Him now convinces me that we are as different as different can be.
If I were to punish everyone who succeeds at making me look a fool, I wouldn't get very far past myself. I promise to get to you next in line, though.
17 Dec 06
Originally posted by FreakyKBHI can no more blaspheme the God you have created in your head than I can blaspheme Santa or the Easter Bunny. "Language of accomodation"? LMAO! In other words, what it says isn't what it means; for its deeper meaning we must go to the anointed like yourself. Delusional but consistent. It also makes laughable your claim that the Bible is "the best evidence possible"; you must mean the Bible as rewritten by whoever you think is expert at such things.
[b]The Bible projects unto God human frailities like jealously (an attribute God supposedly admits to), not me.
True. Language of accomodation is employed throughout the Bible, mostly in the OT. However, you take it to illogical extremes tantamount to blasphemy. It is blasphemous to liken God to a teenage girl in a frantic search for happiness.
...[text shortened]... fool, I wouldn't get very far past myself. I promise to get to you next in line, though.[/b]
Bigot - one obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his own church, party, belief or opinion.
Sure no one would justifiably assume you a bigot?
17 Dec 06
Originally posted by no1marauder"Language of accomodation"? LMAO! In other words, what it says isn't what it means; for its deeper meaning we must go to the anointed like yourself.
I can no more blaspheme the God you have created in your head than I can blaspheme Santa or the Easter Bunny. "Language of accomodation"? LMAO! In other words, what it says isn't what it means; for its deeper meaning we must go to the anointed like yourself. Delusional but consistent. It also makes laughable your claim that the Bible is "the best evidenc ...[text shortened]... urch, party, belief or opinion.
Sure no one would justifiably assume you a bigot?
You gotta ask yourself: in your practice of law, do you constantly seek the letter of the law or the spirit? Do you not vigorously defend your client according to the original intent of whatever applicable laws are before you? In interpreting the law within the context of the time it was written, you have made yourself one of the 'anoited.'
Bigot - one obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his own church, party, belief or opinion.
I tolerate you, don't I? Do you reciprocate?