The Wisdom of Witness Lee

@Rajk999

He worships the man
He values Lee's teachings more than he values the teachings of Christ

No I don't worship Lee or regard his words as above the Bible.

These are lame excuses for not being able to defend your questionable interpretation against better explanations.

Tell you that the New Testament says believers received in the PAST the gift of eternal life. And before they come to the judgement seat of Christ in their future, they HAVE eternal life. What they RECEIVED in the past they presently HAVE.

Because you have eyes to see and see not.

"I have written these things to you that you may know that you HAVE ... eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13)

They have not come before Christ YET at the commencement of the kingdom age to decided for reward or discipline.

They HAVE eternal life. Sorry that you cannot change it to TEMPORARY LIFE. The word of God says "that you HAVE ETERNAL ... LIFE."

They HAVE eternal life.
They are assured of this.

They are NOT assured that they will receive in addition a reward of reigning with Christ in the millennial kingdom. That is to be determined in their future.

As to their PRESENT? They HAVE eternal life.

Don't dislocate your brain trying to TWIST it.

As Rajk999 cannot tell the difference between GIFT and REWARD, neither can he discern the difference between ETERNAL and TEMPORARY.

@Rajk999

Your doctrine is unadulterated rubbish.

And none of the eight questions put to you are you able to answer.

1.) Is a "narrow interpretation" of necessity a WRONG one ?

2.) Can a true and faithful interpretation be considered in any case by some "a narrow interpretation" ?

3.) You are one man who rarely sites anyone else as sharing your viewpoint. Should we then consider that your religion is a cult because you are the only ONE MAN who ever teaches it here?

4.) What is the one teaching from one man which you deem defines the local churches?

5.) Is it wrong to be convinced that one is right and has God's truth ?

If so, are YOU a cult ?

6.) So if I speak negatively about the religion of Satan worship (ie,. Anton Levey's Church of Satan) then that proves I am in a cult ?

7.) Did Jesus Christ start a cult when He spoke of the Pharisees usurping the word of God because of traditions that they introduced and held higher then the Scripture ?

8.) If a teacher says something critical about an organization and then turn around and warns his own listeners that they too, including him, could fall into the same error, does that make the group a cult?

And none of the eight questions put to you are you able to answer.

@sonship said
@Rajk999

He worships the man
He values Lee's teachings more than he values the teachings of Christ

No I don't worship Lee or regard his words as above the Bible.

These are lame excuses for not being able to defend your questionable interpretation against better explanations.

Tell you that the New Testament says believers received in the PAS ...[text shortened]... d REWARD, neither can he discern the difference between ETERNAL and TEMPORARY.

NO inheritance means NO INHERITANCE.
They are kicked out of the Kingdom of God.
Cast into eternal damnation

Their end is to be burned, means that the last think they face is the lake of fire.
That means no eternal life

Destroyed means destroyed.
Destroyed cannot mean anything but

So continue to bray your false doctrines

@Rajk999

They are kicked out of the Kingdom of God.
Cast into eternal damnation

For not more than one thousand years are disciplined Christians to suffer.

No defeated believers will be punished beyond the length of one thousand years. There may be punishment for some portion of that. But that I do not know for certain.

I know that to be saved yet so as through fire means to suffer loss though one retains the gifts of eternal life.

Once born of the Divine Father, you cannot be unborn of Him.

And again, it is the works that the object of the burning, the bad vegetation as undesirable fruits.

But if it [the earth] brings forth thorns and thistles, it is disapproved and near a curse, whose end is to be burned." (Heb. 6:7)

To go forever to the lake of fire is to BE cursed and not NEAR a curse.

" ... Go away from me, you who are CURSED, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matt. 25:41)

"Near a curse" does not equal "you who are CURSED."

@sonship said
@Rajk999

He worships the man
He values Lee's teachings more than he values the teachings of Christ

No I don't worship Lee or regard his words as above the Bible.

These are lame excuses for not being able to defend your questionable interpretation against better explanations.

Tell you that the New Testament says believers received in the PAS ...[text shortened]... d REWARD, neither can he discern the difference between ETERNAL and TEMPORARY.

John is speaking to a select group of Christians, much like Group 1 in i Cor 3 in Pauls list of three groups:
1. Saved and rewarded
2. Punished but still saved
3. DESTROYED .

John addresses Group 1. These are the Christian Saints who have eternal life. In the first 4 verses of that chapter :

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. (1 John 5:1-4 KJV)

Group 1 Christians have eternal life.
1. They have faith
2. They love God and Christ
3. They keep the commandments
4. They overcome the world

THEY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. All Christians are not in this group.
Some Christians will be punished
Some will be DESTROYED.

Read the context and see who is being addressed.

@sonship said
@Rajk999

They are kicked out of the Kingdom of God.
Cast into eternal damnation

For not more than one thousand years are disciplined Christians to suffer.

No defeated believers will be punished beyond the length of one thousand years. There may be punishment for some portion of that. But that I do not know for certain.

I know that to be saved ...[text shortened]... els." (Matt. 25:41) [/quote]

"Near a curse" does not equal "you who are CURSED."

Once born of the Father, you can be destroyed,
Who said anything about being unborn ... moron.

The eight questions Rajk999 ignores, apparently unable to answer them.

No one came along side of him admitting that I encourage anyone to continue to live in sinning.

Let's see now if he avoids answering the following question about John 10:28 .

" And I give to them eternal life, and they shall by no means perish forever, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand." (John 10:28)

Does this verse say they shall by no means perish forever ?
Or does this verse say that by some possible means they may perish forever ?

Which does it teach, Rajk999 ?

@sonship said
The eight questions Rajk999 ignores, apparently unable to answer them.

No one came along side of him admitting that I encourage anyone to continue to live in sinning.

Let's see now if he avoids answering the following question about John 10:28 .

[quote] [b] " And I give to them eternal life, and they shall by no means perish forever, and no one shall snatch ...[text shortened]... say that by some possible means they may perish forever ?

Which does it teach, Rajk999 ?

Jesus refers to HIS SHEEP.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:27-29 KJV)

The sheep of Christ hear the voice of Christ.
They follow Christ
This means they FOLLOW THE COMMANDMENTS OF CHRIST
They get eternal life and the assurance of eternal life

You sure do not qualify

@Rajk999

The sheep of Christ hear the voice of Christ.
They follow Christ
This means they FOLLOW THE COMMANDMENTS OF CHRIST
They get eternal life and the assurance of eternal life

You sure do not qualify

So you are sure and can announce that I have not heard the voice of the Lord, have not followed the Lord, have not obeyed His commandments and do not qualify for the gift of eternal life then ?

Folks this is an ironic thing.
Witness Lee and I at least teach that God tells His redeemed and saved people to COME OUT of the degraded religious apostasy. We are consistent with the book of Revelation.

Where in John 10 is the phrase "follow ... commandments" ?

The commandment is to enter the DOOR of the sheepfold which is Jesus Himself. To hear His voice is to follow Him as a believer into His hand which cannot fail to keep them.

He is the Good Shepherd that lays down His life for the sheep in eternal redemption.

"I am the good Shepherd, the good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (v.11)

Rajk999, hates the revelation of eternal redemption.

Thankfully the Good Shepherd knows His sheep and His sheep know their Good Shepherd.

I am the Good Shepherd, and I know My own, and My own know Me.

Even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. (vs.14,15)

There are other chapters in the New Testament about the discipline of living in the kingdom. This chapter, John 10, is about following by believing that Jesus laid down His life and took it up again to give the sheep eternal life.

In spite of Rajk999's pre-mature judgment, I was qualified long ago to be a sheep in the hand of the Good Shepherd. He cannot snatch me out of the Good Shepherd's hand no matter what.

My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand.

I and the Father are one." (vs. 29,30)

The only commandment I can see mentioned in all of John 10 is for Jesus to accomplish redemption by laying down His life and taking it up again that we be saved.

"For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.... this commandment I received from My Father." (vs.17,18)

Where is the mention of other commandments in regards to receiving eternal life in this chapter ?

@sonship said
@Rajk999

The sheep of Christ hear the voice of Christ.
They follow Christ
This means they FOLLOW THE COMMANDMENTS OF CHRIST
They get eternal life and the assurance of eternal life

You sure do not qualify

So you are sure and can announce that I have not heard the voice of the Lord, have not followed the Lord, have not obeyed His commandments a ...[text shortened]... no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand.

I and the Father are one." (vs. 29,30) [/quote]

Again you are here preaching to others NOT to follow the commandments., and you are not even aware that you are doing it.

If anything it is Satan that appeared to Witness Lee and to you and told youall to come out of the good churches, and to condemn all of Christianity, the Law of Moses etc, and start your own false church. If your heart was really with God and Christ then that would never have happened. Your heart is far from Christ. There is no follower of Christ that would continually speak against follow the commandments of Christ.

Following the commandments is the the ONLY WAY TO FOLLOW CHRIST.
Following the commandments is the ONLY WAY TO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

You follow MEN. You are a men-pleaser led astray by pride. Pride is the quality that would make you think that all other religions in the world are organisations of Satan. And your pride has made you follow the wrong teachings and the wrong preacher Witness Lee.

@sonship said
The only commandment I can see mentioned in all of John 10 is for Jesus to accomplish redemption by laying down His life and taking it up again that we be saved.

"For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.... this commandment I received from My Father." (vs.17,18)

Where is the mention of other commandments in regards to receiving eternal life in this chapter ?

The commandments of Christ should be listed out in John 10?
Are you really that stupid?

You truly belong to a religion of Satan.

Still, NO ONE comes along aside you to agree that I teach people to continue to live in sin.

Not one person said "Well, you know, I have to agree with Rajk999 here." And I have plenty of naysayers who well would like opportunity to show me wrong.

You must have come to steal and kill and destroy like the thieves Jesus mentions that do not come to give life.

"The thief does not come except to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life and may have it abundantly." (John 10:10)

I don't know your voice. Away with you. I know the voice of the Good Shepherd who calls His sheep by name and gives them life abundantly.

@Rajk999

. There is no follower of Christ that would continually speak against follow the commandments of Christ.

I bet Rajk999 cannot find a post I wrote in which I spoke "against following the commandments of Christ".

Let's see if he can produce ONE example. He says I do so continually.

@sonship said
Still, NO ONE comes along aside you to agree that I teach people to continue to live in sin.

Not one person said "Well, you know, I have to agree with Rajk999 here." And I have plenty of naysayers who well would like opportunity to show me wrong.

You must have come to steal and kill and destroy like the thieves Jesus mentions tha ...[text shortened]... . I know the voice of the Good Shepherd who calls His sheep by name and gives them life abundantly.

Lets see now.
You hear the voice of Jesus
Jesus said not to follow his commandments
Jesus said to follow Witness Lee
Jesus told you that Judaism is an organisation of Satan
Jesus told you that Catholicism and all Christian churches are organisations of Satan.
Jesus told you that you have eternal life.
Is that it?

Sounds like it is the voice of Satan you are hearing. The only reason why people hear that voice is because their heart is not with God. If your heart was with God, you would not be easily led astray. God protects his people from false doctrines and lies.

As for other people .. I think people who originally supported you are too embarrased that they once did. This thread and the points brought out by Ghost has caused your reputation and your credibility among Christians to fall to nothing. And that is where you will stay. Imagine that, the big preacher sonship, brought down by an atheist ...LOL I love it. There is a God.