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@rajk999 saidYou really have a hard time acknowledging that LOVE is the central commandment from Jesus Christ - love God and love your neighbor.
Carry on rambling. Your question about Jesus going to the cross, just demonstrates your church doctrine is at odds with the teachings of Christ... for the umpteenth time.
Can you honestly say you love God? Can you honestly say you love Christians?
Because if you can’t do either, you’re breaking what Jesus said were the two greatest commandments.
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@rajk999 said<<I dont call you names at all. I just call you a fool…>>
Your references do not support your church doctrine.
You say ..They are equally God,
Show me this in the bible .
I dont call you names at all. I just call you a fool for talking nonsense when you cannot provide a reference for your doctrine.
🙄
@pb1022 saidGone off the topic again. Topic getting tough? Get back on track
@Rajk999
When you realize God loves you, you’ll be able to love Him and love your neighbor.
Your biggest problem, imo, is you don’t think God loves you. You seem to be constantly trying to earn His love and approval.
Your view of God as this overbearing taskmaster is totally out of whack with reality.
It must really burn your biscuits that Jesus Christ said the two ...[text shortened]... h crap.
Both people carried her groceries. Who did it out of love and the way God wanted it done?
The opening post is about Jesus being subject to the Father. Your original claim was that Jesus said the Father was greater because that was during His ministry and that when ascended to heaven he was equal to the Father. That is FALSE. According to Paul, Jesus remains subject to the Father even after the millennial reign of 1,000 is done and after as well. What say you to that ? Paul is making you a liar.
Next the issue with Jesus having a choice about the codification. Of he did but in the words of Jesus himself - ... he abides in the love of the Father if he keeps the Fathers commandments
I will not be responding to off-topic comments.
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@rajk999 saidYou’re the one who brought up the commandments. I asked you what the commandments were.
Gone off the topic again. Topic getting tough? Get back on track
The opening post is about Jesus being subject to the Father. Your original claim was that Jesus said the Father was greater because that was during His ministry and that when ascended to heaven he was equal to the Father. That is FALSE. According to Paul, Jesus remains subject to the Father even after the ...[text shortened]... e Father if he keeps the Fathers commandments[/b]
I will not be responding to off-topic comments.
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@rajk999 saidI’ll post a commentary that addresses your point, but, before that, it seems like you’ve moved off your position that Jesus Christ is a created being and are now focusing on how God the Father and God the Son relate to each other.
Gone off the topic again. Topic getting tough? Get back on track
The opening post is about Jesus being subject to the Father. Your original claim was that Jesus said the Father was greater because that was during His ministry and that when ascended to heaven he was equal to the Father. That is FALSE. According to Paul, Jesus remains subject to the Father even after the ...[text shortened]... e Father if he keeps the Fathers commandments[/b]
I will not be responding to off-topic comments.
That’s a significant departure from your previous position that Jesus Christ was created by God the Father - a position I think you realize is no longer tenable.
Anyway, here’s the commentary:
<<the Son Himself will also be subject to Him.
i. Those who deny the deity of Jesus say this verse proves their point. They take the submission of God the Son as “proof” that He must not be equal in deity to God the Father. But the submission of Jesus to the Father doesn’t come from any inherent inferiority; instead, it comes from the administrative order of the Godhead. A son is always in submission to his father, even if both are “equal” in substance.
ii. “The son of a king may be the equal of his father in every attribute of his nature, though officially inferior. So the eternal Son of God may be coequal with the Father, though officially subordinate.” (Hodge)
iii. “The Son’s subjection to his Father, which is mentioned in this place, doth no where prove his inequality of essence or power with his Father; it only signifieth what was spoken before, that Christ should deliver up his mediatory kingdom to his Father.” (Poole)
iv. Simply put, God the Father will always be God the Father, and God the Son will always be God the Son, and for all eternity they will continue to relate to each other as Father and Son.
f. That God may be all in all: Here, Paul refers to God the Son’s desire to glorify God the Father through all eternity. Importantly, each person of the Trinity desires to glorify another person of the Trinity. The Son glorifies the Father (John 17:4), the Father glorifies the Son (John 17:5), and the Holy Spirit glorifies the Son (John 16:14). This aspect of the nature of God is something God wants us to walk in, having a concern for the glory of others, and not our own (Philippians 2:3-4).>>
https://enduringword.com/bible-commentary/1-corinthians-15/
@pb1022 saidThis is why the words 'fool' and stupid' must remain part of my vocabulary. I maintain that
I’ll post a commentary that addresses your point, but, before that, it seems like you’ve moved off your position that Jesus Christ is a created being and are now focusing on how God the Father and God the Son relate to each other.
That’s a significant departure from your previous position that Jesus Christ was created by God the Father - a position I think you realize is no longer tenable.
- Jesus the Son was a creation of, or born of, God His Father
- Jesus is subject to the Father, before, during and after his ministry.
- God is greater and Jesus is lesser
I have not departed from any position at all.
Your post is just plain stupid
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@rajk999 saidIf Jesus Christ were created, how to reconcile Colossians 1:16 with Genesis 1:1?
This is why the words 'fool' and stupid' must remain part of my vocabulary. I maintain that
- Jesus the Son was a creation of, or born of, God His Father
- Jesus is subject to the Father, before, during and after his ministry.
- God is greater and Jesus is lesser
I have not departed from any position at all.
Your post is just plain stupid
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”
(Colossians 1:16)
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
(Genesis 1:1)
If all things were created by Jesus Christ, as stated in Colossians 1:16, and God created the heaven and the earth, as stated in Genesis 1:1, it seems pretty clear that Jesus is God.
21 Dec 21
@kellyjay saidWhat? Both your comment and the one before aren't helping you any. They both aren't saying what you want them too.
Co-equal has nothing to do with which one is in charge that has always been the Father. Co-equal has to do with who they are, my son is not my equal in our house, but without a doubt, he is no less human than I am. A general has more authority than a private, but both are soldiers with respect to their occupation in the military; one has more authority as the Father does ove ...[text shortened]... p dinosaurs and other things but not once backed up with scripture God never having a Word or a Son.
The more you guys try to make us understand is actually the more your not. Well it's like the more you try to make this make sense is the smaller that corner in the room gets...
21 Dec 21
@galveston75 saidMake your point
What? Both your comment and the one before aren't helping you any. They both aren't saying what you want them too.
The more you guys try to make us understand is actually the more your not. Well it's like the more you try to make this make sense is the smaller that corner in the room gets...
21 Dec 21
@pb1022 saidNo, no, no. Your making this so much harder then it is. This is what the trinity does which is it mixes up timelines and who did and didn't do what.
If Jesus Christ were created, how to reconcile Colossians 1:16 with Genesis 1:1?
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”
(Colossians 1:16)
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the ea ...[text shortened]... created the heaven and the earth, as stated in Genesis 1:1, it seems pretty clear that Jesus is God.
Jehovah God the Almighty God has always existed. That may be hard to comprehend but that's what is said in the Bible. Don't make more of what it says.
Then at some point way in the past, no one knows, he created a son or another being who later became Jesus. Jesus who is a separate and a subordinate being. No where in the scriptures doe it even say he is equal, or the same being as Jehovah. The terms father and son are used all through out the bible so that we humans can understand very clearly who they are. We can relate to that because this is exactly how humans are within a family setting. Nothing more.
At some point Jehovah decided to have more beings created beside his son. Jehovah could have done all that we see in all creation
but he wanted his only begotten son to be involved. We don't know how but with his Fathers help he was very involved in what was created here on earth and in the heavens. What an honor for his son to do be able to do this.
This simple description is clearly laid out in Genesis.
Again truth is truth. There is no confusion about a truth so one should not allow to let confusion or the influence of Satan get mixed in ever. A little leaven does what??????
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@galveston75 saidColossians 1:16 says Jesus Christ created everything. So does John 1:1.
No, no, no. Your making this so much harder then it is. This is what the trinity does which is it mixes up timelines and who did and didn't do what.
Jehovah God the Almighty God has always existed. That may be hard to comprehend but that's what is said in the Bible. Don't make more of what it says.
Then at some point way in the past, no one knows, he created a son ...[text shortened]... allow to let confusion or the influence of Satan get mixed in ever. A little leaven does what??????
Genesis 1:1 says “God” created the heaven and the earth. It doesn’t say God and His Son created the heaven and the earth. It doesn’t say God and a subordinate being created the heaven and the earth. It says God created them.
You’re the one who’s making this harder than it is.
Nowhere in the Holy Bible does it say God the Father created Jesus.
I suggest you lay off the Satan talk because I’m not a Christ denier like you.
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@galveston75 saidI’m not trying to make you understand anything. I’m refuting your points.
What? Both your comment and the one before aren't helping you any. They both aren't saying what you want them too.
The more you guys try to make us understand is actually the more your not. Well it's like the more you try to make this make sense is the smaller that corner in the room gets...
21 Dec 21
@sonship saidForced? Really? Lol....I didn't know one had to be "forced"!!! I've never heard that or have seen that anywhere in the Bible.
@KellyJay
His point is and will remain the same, simply - You have not yet forced him to believe the Bible.
Did Jesus ever force anything on anyone? Of course not. It was offered to them and depending on their heart condition determined if they accepted his teachings. Not physically but spiritually of course.
I don't know maybe I need to be tied down and whipped with a whip would do it? Nah, I doubt it.
21 Dec 21
@pb1022 saidWhere have I ever said I denied Jesus????????????????????????? He is our Savior. Wow!!!!! You need to pay attention a little more because you are wrong on that and how do you keep missing the fact that Jesus is called the first born? If that is not Jesus it's speaking of then who is that speaking of?
Colossians 1:16 says Jesus Christ created everything. So does John 1:1.
Genesis 1:1 says “God” created the heaven and the earth. It doesn’t say God and His Son created the heaven and the earth. It doesn’t say God and a subordinate being created the heaven and the earth. It says God created them.
You’re the one who’s making this harder than it is.
Nowhere in the Holy B ...[text shortened]... her created Jesus.
I suggest you lay off the Satan talk because I’m not a Christ denier like you.