This makes foolishness of the Trinity

@pb1022 said
If Jesus Christ were created, how to reconcile Colossians 1:16 with Genesis 1:1?

“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”

(Colossians 1:16)

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the ea ...[text shortened]... created the heaven and the earth, as stated in Genesis 1:1, it seems pretty clear that Jesus is God.

The opening post demonstrates clearly that Jesus and God are two separate and distinct entities and that God is the boss. There is no equality. The doctrine of the Trinity is fabricated rubbish.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15:28 KJV)

@galveston75 said
Where have I ever said I denied Jesus????????????????????????? He is our Savior. Wow!!!!! You need to pay attention a little more because you are wrong on that and how do you keep missing the fact that Jesus is called the first born? If that is not Jesus it's speaking of then who is that speaking of?

You deny Jesus Christ’s deity.

And we’ve born over this “firstborn” argument at least three times.

@rajk999 said
The opening post demonstrates clearly that Jesus and God are two separate and distinct entities and that God is the boss. There is no equality. The doctrine of the Trinity is fabricated rubbish.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15:28 KJV)

I responded to this already (as have others) and provided a commentary that explains why your objection is baseless.

Do you not remember?

I believe your rejoinder to the commentary was that it was “stupid.” Hardly a response at all.

Believe what you want to believe.

@pb1022 said
I responded to this already (as have others) and provided a commentary that explains why your objection is baseless.

Do you not remember?

I believe your rejoinder to the commentary was that it was “stupid.” Hardly a response at all.

Believe what you want to believe.

Oh .. I see ... a commentary from one of your church people supersedes the clear teachings of Christ and the Apostles? Well why didnt you say so all the time. Ok I believe you now.

Your church is now greater than Christ
But Christ = God
Your church is greater than God ??

OK ... now that I know that I will listen to your church.

@rajk999 said
Oh .. I see ... a commentary from one of your church people supersedes the clear teachings of Christ and the Apostles? Well why didnt you say so all the time. Ok I believe you now.

Your church is now greater than Christ
But Christ = God
Your church is greater than God ??

OK ... now that I know that I will listen to your church.

Since you seem so hung up on the power dynamics of God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son, let me ask you this:

What powers does God the Father have that Jesus Christ doesn’t?

Didn’t Jesus demonstrate during His earthly ministry that He was omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient?

Did it occur to you that Jesus Christ placed Himself willingly in a subservient role to God the Father in the same way that He willingly washed His disciples’ feet? When Jesus washed His disciples’ feet, did that mean He was lesser than His disciples?

Jesus Christ’s message of love, humility and service seems to have flown completely over your head.

You can’t imagine someone humbling himself before another unless he’s a lesser person or forced to.

@pb1022 said
What powers does God the Father have that Jesus Christ doesn’t?
Didn’t Jesus demonstrate during His earthly ministry that He was omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient?

You have demonstrated zero proof that Jesus and God are equal. The bible has ample proof in clear language that
- God is greater
- God is the head of Christ
- God is the creator
- Jesus created the world under the supervision of God
- Jesus is subject to the Father, before, during and after his ministry
So ... your church doctrine is utter unbiblical nonsense

God revealed who Jesus was to Peter but you rather listen to your church

.. And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.(Matthew 16:15-17 KJV)

@rajk999 said
You have demonstrated zero proof that Jesus and God are equal. The bible has ample proof in clear language that
- God is greater
- God is the head of Christ
- God is the creator
- Jesus created the world under the supervision of God
- Jesus is subject to the Father, before, during and after his ministry
So ... your church doctrine is utter unbiblical nonsense

Go ...[text shortened]... nd blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.(Matthew 16:15-17 KJV)[/i]

So you can’t answer what powers God the Father has that Jesus Christ lacks?

@pb1022 said
So you can’t answer what powers God the Father has that Jesus Christ lacks?

Why would I want to answer that? How is that relevant to what the bible says. I told you already I dont allow myself to be cross-questioned. You are trying to derail the topic a typical ploy you try all the time. Im not on a witness stand and you are not a lawyer. This is a simple matter. - What did the bible say about Jesus being equal to God. Have nothing more to add ? If you do then make your point otherwise case closed.

@rajk999 said
Why would I want to answer that? How is that relevant to what the bible says. I told you already I dont allow myself to be cross-questioned. You are trying to derail the topic a typical ploy you try all the time. Im not on a witness stand and you are not a lawyer. This is a simple matter. - What did the bible say about Jesus being equal to God. Have nothing more to add ? If you do then make your point otherwise case closed.

I made my point already. Here it is again:

Did it occur to you that Jesus Christ placed Himself willingly in a subservient role to God the Father in the same way that He willingly washed His disciples’ feet? When Jesus washed His disciples’ feet, did that mean He was lesser than His disciples?

Jesus Christ’s message of love, humility and service seems to have flown completely over your head.

You can’t imagine someone humbling himself before another unless he’s a lesser person or forced to.

@pb1022 said
I made my point already. Here it is again:

Did it occur to you that Jesus Christ placed Himself willingly in a subservient role to God the Father in the same way that He willingly washed His disciples’ feet? When Jesus washed His disciples’ feet, did that mean He was lesser than His disciples?

Jesus Christ’s message of love, humility and service seems to have flown comp ...[text shortened]...
You can’t imagine someone humbling himself before another unless he’s a lesser person or forced to.

Lol ... you are a funny man. The core teaching of the Trinity is the equality of God and Christ and that is the best you have ???

@pb1022 said
So you can’t answer what powers God the Father has that Jesus Christ lacks?

Before Jesus proved his faithfulness to his Father Jehovah by not giving into Satan when being tested and then by actually giving his life as he did as a ransom for us all, Jesus could have failed. That is why Satan tempted him as Satan knew that it could just happen.
Now that kind of proves that Jehovah is the giver of life and has the only authority to completely take it away.
So Jehovah has that power above his son. Yes Jesus will be a judge to see who gets approval to be given the chance to live forever on the earth once Satan is finally destroyed. But even that gift can still be taken away should any angel or a human ever decide to revolt as Satan did in the Garden of Eden. No where at all in the Bible is it said that Jesus will destroy any human.
Only Jehovah gives life and can take it away.................................

@galveston75 said
Before Jesus proved his faithfulness to his Father Jehovah by not giving into Satan when being tested and then by actually giving his life as he did as a ransom for us all, Jesus could have failed. That is why Satan tempted him as Satan knew that it could just happen.
Now that kind of proves that Jehovah is the giver of life and has the only authority to completely take ...[text shortened]... destroy any human.
Only Jehovah gives life and can take it away.................................

All that is not even necessary. Jesus said many times that his power comes from God. He can do nothing without God. They are clearly not equals. Does Gods power come from Jesus ? Hell no.

That Trinity doctrine is promoted by false churches and believed by fools who have chosen to ignore the teachings of the bible.

@rajk999 said
All that is not even necessary. Jesus said many times that his power comes from God. He can do nothing without God. They are clearly not equals. Does Gods power come from Jesus ? Hell no.

That Trinity doctrine is promoted by false churches and believed by fools who have chosen to ignore the teachings of the bible.

It may not be necessary but it seems every little detail possible has to be laid out and even then they still can't see it....

@galveston75 said
Before Jesus proved his faithfulness to his Father Jehovah by not giving into Satan when being tested and then by actually giving his life as he did as a ransom for us all, Jesus could have failed. That is why Satan tempted him as Satan knew that it could just happen.
Now that kind of proves that Jehovah is the giver of life and has the only authority to completely take ...[text shortened]... destroy any human.
Only Jehovah gives life and can take it away.................................

<<Before Jesus proved his faithfulness to his Father Jehovah by not giving into Satan when being tested and then by actually giving his life as he did as a ransom for us all, Jesus could have failed.>>

Sure. Jesus Christ, when He was being tempted by Satan in the wilderness, was fully God *and fully human.* He was in human flesh and subject to the same temptations as all humans.

This was not the case before His birth to the Virgin Mary or after His Resurrection and Ascension into Heaven.

<<That is why Satan tempted him as Satan knew that it could just happen.>>

Because Jesus was in the flesh and subject to the same temptations as all men. This was not the case before His birth to the Virgin Mary or after His Resurrection and ascension into Heaven.

<<Now that kind of proves that Jehovah is the giver of life and has the only authority to completely take it away.>>

Huh? How do you figure that?

<<So Jehovah has that power above his son. Yes Jesus will be a judge to see who gets approval to be given the chance to live forever on the earth once Satan is finally destroyed. But even that gift can still be taken away should any angel or a human ever decide to revolt as Satan did in the Garden of Eden. No where at all in the Bible is it said that Jesus will destroy any human.
Only Jehovah gives life and can take it away.................................>>

Do you have Scripture to support any of what you wrote here?!

@rajk999 said
All that is not even necessary. Jesus said many times that his power comes from God. He can do nothing without God. They are clearly not equals. Does Gods power come from Jesus ? Hell no.

That Trinity doctrine is promoted by false churches and believed by fools who have chosen to ignore the teachings of the bible.

<<All that is not even necessary. Jesus said many times that his power comes from God. He can do nothing without God.>>

And when did Jesus say that? When He was in the flesh, right? After He was made “a little lower than the angels” to “taste death for every man,” right? (See Hebrews chapter 2.)

When will you and galveston75 realize that Jesus Christ *in human flesh after His birth to the Virgin Mary* did not have the same stature He had before His birth to the Virgin Mary?

Fully God > Fully God and fully human,

<<They are clearly not equals. Does Gods power come from Jesus ? Hell no.>>

No matter how many times it’s pointed out to you, you and galveston75 still don’t understand that Jesus Christ in human flesh after His birth to the Virgin Mary was not of the same stature or rank as before His birth to the Virgin Mary or after His Resurrection and ascension into Heaven.

But don’t take my word for it. Look at the Holy Bible.

Jesus’ stature before His birth to the Virgin Mary?

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

(John 1:1-3)

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

(John 1:14)

Jesus’ stature after His birth to the Virgin Mary, when He was fully human and fully God?

“Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.”

(Hebrews 2:7-9)

Jesus’ stature after His Resurrection and ascension into Heaven?

“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.”

(Hebrews 2:8)

Check the preceding verses to see this is God the Father talking to Jesus after Jesus’ Resurrection and ascension into Heaven.

<<That Trinity doctrine is promoted by false churches and believed by fools who have chosen to ignore the teachings of the bible.>>

The Trinity is in the Holy Bible. You just can’t see it or choose not to see it.