15 Feb 06
3 edits
Originally posted by dottewellHere are your professionals who are in the book and mentioned in the book. They are also not one-sided:
The Strobel book you are talking about is deliberately one-sided and the "experts" within it are mainly non-scientists.
You are reading to confirm you beliefs, not to question them. Fine. Just don't expect others to do the same.
Stephen Hawking, PhD - His string theory is mentioned, and even Hawking says (and they quote) he uses imaginary numbers for his formulas. Without them, his formulas would not work.
Denton, Michael. Nature's Destiny. New York: The Free Press.
Stephen Myer, PhD Astronomy.
Gonzalez, Guillermo and Jay Wesley Richards. The Privileged Planet. Washington, D.C.: Regney, 2004.
Jastrow, Robert. God and the Astronomers. New York: W. W. Norton, second edition, 1992.
Just some sources in only the astronomy section that are used to back up all of it.
The major interviewees:
Robin Collins, PhD Cosmology
Guillermo Gonzalez, PhD Astronomy
Michael J. Behe
Johnathan Wells, PhD, PhD. His undergraduate degree from University of California at Berkeley (top 20 school in the country) was in geology and physics, with a minor in biology. At Yale Graduate School, where he earned a doctorate in religious studies, Wells specialized in the nineteenth-century controveries surrounding Darwinism, His book, Charles Hodge's Critique of Darwinism, was published in 1988.
In 1994, Wells received a doctorate in molecular and cell biology at Berkeley, where he focused primarily on vetebrate embryology and evolution. He later worked at Berkeley as a post-doctorate research biologist. I could go on... and on... And, he's only one of many of the well known great minds in this book, Case for a Creator by Lee Strobel.
I also would like to add that Lee Strobel was a atheist reporter who once didn't believe in God. But, then his wife got saved in Jesus Christ, so he set out to write a book to disprove Christianity. It was called The Case for Christ. Throughout that book, Lee Strobel became saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. If anyone is going to make a decision as big as the question of God, why go on in ignorance? At least, give something a chance before you write it off. I don't think a faith in Jesus Christ, the Messiah, has ever hurt anyone. But, read the books, THe Case for Christ and the Case for the Creator. If you don't read them, you can't critique them. And, I believe that anyone who reads these two books will come to the reality that not believing in an all powerful God is ignorant and stupid! Here is an excerpt from the book I have picked for you:
"'For example," said Gonzalez, "not only do we inhabit a location in the Milky Way that's fortuiitously optimal for life, but out location also happens to provide us with the best overall platform for making a diverse range of discoveries for astronomers and cosmologists. Our location away from the galaxy's center and in the flat plane of the disk provides us with a particularly privileged vantage point for observing both nearby and distant stars" (Strobel 232).
Another one:
"One more thing. The existence of my soul gives me a new way to understand how God can be everywhere. That's because my soul occupies my body without being located in any one part of it. There's no place in my body where you can say, 'Here I am.' My soul is not in the left part of my brain, it's not in my nose, it's not in my lungs. My soul is fully present everywhere throughout my body. That's why if I lose part of my body, I don't lose part of my soul."
"In a similar way, God is fully present everywhere. He isn't located, say, right outside the planet Mars. God occupies space in the same way the soul occupies of the body. If space were somehow cut in half, God wouldn't lose half his being. So now I have a new model, based on my own self, for God's omnipresence. And shouldn't we expect this? If we were made in the image of God, wouldn't we expect there to be some parallels between us and God?" (Strobel 336). That was J.P. Moreland, PhD.
On DNA:
"First, you need the right bonds between amino acids. Second, amino acids come in right-handed and left-handed versions, and you've got to get only the left-handed ones. Third, the amino acids must lik up in a specified sequence, like letters in a sentence... Run the odds of these things falling into place on their own and you find that the probabilities of forming a rather short function protein at random would be one chance in a hundred thousand trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion. That's a ten with 125 zeroes after it!" (Strobel 284). Miracle?
Anyway, there you go dottewell. Also, DNA proteins do not have any attractions. For some odd reason they just order themselves to make each one of us exactly unique but alike in a general sense. Made in God's on image.
"I believe the presence of information in the cell is best explained by the activity of an intelligent agent.," he replied. "Bill Gates said, 'DNA is like a software program, only much more complex than anything we've ever devised.' That's highly suggestive, because we know that at Microsoft, Gates uses intelligent programmers to produce software. INformation theorist Henry Quastler said as far back as the 1960s that the 'creation of new information is habitually associated with conscious activity'" (Strobel 279).
"Imagine trying to generate even a simple book by throwing Scrabble letters into the floor. Or imagine closing your eyes and picking Scrabble letters out of a bag. Are you going to produce Hamlet in anything like the time of the known universe? Even a simple protein molecule, or the gene to build a molecule, is so rich in information that the entire time since the Big Bang would not give you, as my colleague Bill Dembski likes to say, "the probabilistic resources' you would need tyo generate that molecule by chance" (Strobel 284).
All I know dottewell, Jesus is real and he loves you. Turn to him and accept Him as your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He is real. He is love. And, he is eternal. He died to save you from your sins. All the world is sinful. Only through the Way, the Truth and the Life can one find real love, real acceptance and eternal salvation. His is the Lord Jesus, Prince of Peace, and He's knocking at your this very second - the door of your heart.
15 Feb 06
1 edit
Originally posted by RolfeyHere are your professionals who are in the book and mentioned in the book. They are also not one-sided:
certainly no worry from this end! faith isn't fact and he's too stubborn to admit it.
Stephen Hawking, PhD - His string theory is mentioned, and even Hawking says (and they quote) he uses imaginary numbers for his formulas. Without them, his formulas would not work.
Denton, Michael. Nature's Destiny. New York: The Free Press.
Stephen Myer, PhD Astronomy.
Gonzalez, Guillermo and Jay Wesley Richards. The Privileged Planet. Washington, D.C.: Regney, 2004.
Jastrow, Robert. God and the Astronomers. New York: W. W. Norton, second edition, 1992.
Just some sources in only the astronomy section that are used to back up all of it.
The major interviewees:
Robin Collins, PhD Cosmology
Guillermo Gonzalez, PhD Astronomy
Michael J. Behe
Johnathan Wells, PhD, PhD. His undergraduate degree from University of California at Berkeley (top 20 school in the country) was in geology and physics, with a minor in biology. At Yale Graduate School, where he earned a doctorate in religious studies, Wells specialized in the nineteenth-century controveries surrounding Darwinism, His book, Charles Hodge's Critique of Darwinism, was published in 1988.
In 1994, Wells received a doctorate in molecular and cell biology at Berkeley, where he focused primarily on vetebrate embryology and evolution. He later worked at Berkeley as a post-doctorate research biologist. I could go on... and on... And, he's only one of many of the well known great minds in this book, Case for a Creator by Lee Strobel.
I also would like to add that Lee Strobel was a atheist reporter who once didn't believe in God. But, then his wife got saved in Jesus Christ, so he set out to write a book to disprove Christianity. It was called The Case for Christ. Throughout that book, Lee Strobel became saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. If anyone is going to make a decision as big as the question of God, why go on in ignorance? At least, give something a chance before you write it off. I don't think a faith in Jesus Christ, the Messiah, has ever hurt anyone. But, read the books, THe Case for Christ and the Case for the Creator. If you don't read them, you can't critique them. And, I believe that anyone who reads these two books will come to the reality that not believing in an all powerful God is ignorant and stupid! Here is an excerpt from the book I have picked for you:
"'For example," said Gonzalez, "not only do we inhabit a location in the Milky Way that's fortuiitously optimal for life, but out location also happens to provide us with the best overall platform for making a diverse range of discoveries for astronomers and cosmologists. Our location away from the galaxy's center and in the flat plane of the disk provides us with a particularly privileged vantage point for observing both nearby and distant stars" (Strobel 232).
Another one:
"One more thing. The existence of my soul gives me a new way to understand how God can be everywhere. That's because my soul occupies my body without being located in any one part of it. There's no place in my body where you can say, 'Here I am.' My soul is not in the left part of my brain, it's not in my nose, it's not in my lungs. My soul is fully present everywhere throughout my body. That's why if I lose part of my body, I don't lose part of my soul."
"In a similar way, God is fully present everywhere. He isn't located, say, right outside the planet Mars. God occupies space in the same way the soul occupies of the body. If space were somehow cut in half, God wouldn't lose half his being. So now I have a new model, based on my own self, for God's omnipresence. And shouldn't we expect this? If we were made in the image of God, wouldn't we expect there to be some parallels between us and God?" (Strobel 336). That was J.P. Moreland, PhD.
On DNA:
"First, you need the right bonds between amino acids. Second, amino acids come in right-handed and left-handed versions, and you've got to get only the left-handed ones. Third, the amino acids must lik up in a specified sequence, like letters in a sentence... Run the odds of these things falling into place on their own and you find that the probabilities of forming a rather short function protein at random would be one chance in a hundred thousand trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion. That's a ten with 125 zeroes after it!" (Strobel 284). Miracle?
Anyway, there you go dottewell. Also, DNA proteins do not have any attractions. For some odd reason they just order themselves to make each one of us exactly unique but alike in a general sense. Made in God's on image.
"I believe the presence of information in the cell is best explained by the activity of an intelligent agent.," he replied. "Bill Gates said, 'DNA is like a software program, only much more complex than anything we've ever devised.' That's highly suggestive, because we know that at Microsoft, Gates uses intelligent programmers to produce software. INformation theorist Henry Quastler said as far back as the 1960s that the 'creation of new information is habitually associated with conscious activity'" (Strobel 279).
"Imagine trying to generate even a simple book by throwing Scrabble letters into the floor. Or imagine closing your eyes and picking Scrabble letters out of a bag. Are you going to produce Hamlet in anything like the time of the known universe? Even a simple protein molecule, or the gene to build a molecule, is so rich in information that the entire time since the Big Bang would not give you, as my colleague Bill Dembski likes to say, "the probabilistic resources' you would need tyo generate that molecule by chance" (Strobel 284).
This books is a number one bestseller. A journalist investigates Scientific Evidence That Points Toward God. Not Prove Him! But, points towards intelligent design. Maybe what Jesus said will encourage you: "Thomas you believe because you have seen me. But, blessed is he who believes in me and has not seen me," said Jesus in the New testament. That's the Word of God. I can't wait to get my blessing! All I want is to walk and talk with Jesus all day. 🙂
All I know Rolfey, Jesus is real and he loves you. Turn to him and accept Him as your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He is real. He is love. And, he is eternal. He died to save you from your sins. All the world is sinful. Only through the Way, the Truth and the Life can one find real love, real acceptance and eternal salvation. His is the Lord Jesus, Prince of Peace, and He's knocking at your this very second - the door of your heart.
15 Feb 06
Originally posted by dottewellStrobel also uses over 60 reknowned sources from various scientists. And, the people he interviews backs up all that they are saying with evidence - not garbage. Strobel says, "My road to atheism was paved by science . . . but, ironically, so was my later journey to God." 🙂
Five? Scientists? Named? Interviewed and quoted at length?
During his academic years, Lee Strobel became convinced that God was outmoded, a belief that colored his ensuing career as an award-winning journalist at the Chicago Tribune. Science had made the idea of a Creator irrelevant --- or so Strobel thought.
But, today science is pointing to a different direction. In recent years, a diverse and impressive body of research has increasingly supported the conclusion that the universe was intelligently designed. At the same time, Darwinism has faltered in the face of concrete facts and hard reason.
Has science discovered God? At the very least, it's giving faith an immense boost as new findings emerge about the incredible complexity of our universe. Join Strobel as he reexamines the theories that once led him away from God. Through his compelling account, you'll encounter the mind-stretching discoveries from cosmology, cellular biology, DNA research, astronomy, physics, and human consciousness that present astonishing evidence in:
THE CASE FOR A CREATOR!
Thought I'd give you the writing on the back of the book. 🙂 *wink*
16 Feb 06
1 edit
Originally posted by XanthosNZI’ve heard of people actually trying to use irrational numbers. Now that’s just nuts.... 😛
What does the fact that Stephen Hawking is mentioned have to with the credability of the book? Also what does his using of imaginary numbers have to do with anything at all?
16 Feb 06
Originally posted by RolfeyThe center of the universe? What scripture are you referring to? And, the Earth was created in 7 days. That has never been disproven by science. Carbon dating is inaccurate and so are a lot of isotopic measurements of age. Do you research. Nothing in the Bible has ever been disproven by science to a 100% certainty. Nothing.
cretin. by the logic you have quoted you still have not actually proved that there is a creator or intelligent design. try harder.
I've picked the easy responses to the below:
"2.)Nothing in the Holy Bible has ever been prove historically or scientifically inaccurate."
earth centre of the universe? earth made in 7 days? earth only several thousand ...[text shortened]... cept it as fact) you may as well preach to someone who is stupid enough to care.
16 Feb 06
Originally posted by RolfeyIf you people met Jesus, you'd still doubt God! Just like the people doubting MOses when God departed the waters of the Red Sea for the Hebrews to escape from Ramses of Egypt. Doubt all you want! Jesus is Lord and everyone shall know it before it is over.
i do not possess the writing skills to convey just how stupid you are if you think this is proof. Allow me to answer each point in turn:
PS:
"'For example," said Gonzalez, "not only do we inhabit a location in the Milky Way that's fortuiitously optimal for life, but out location also happens to provide us with the best overall platform for making a diver ...[text shortened]... he first is a vulgar word for intercourse.
16 Feb 06
Originally posted by RolfeyYou made no sense what so ever, Rolfey. Sad. You have no faith. God surely loves you, and you have no faith. Look into your heart and know your were wrought by the Lord from the foundations of time.
i do not possess the writing skills to convey just how stupid you are if you think this is proof. Allow me to answer each point in turn:
PS:
"'For example," said Gonzalez, "not only do we inhabit a location in the Milky Way that's fortuiitously optimal for life, but out location also happens to provide us with the best overall platform for making a diver ...[text shortened]... he first is a vulgar word for intercourse.
16 Feb 06
7 edits
Originally posted by RolfeyYou say, "earth centre of the universe? earth made in 7 days? earth only several thousand years old? idiot."
cretin. by the logic you have quoted you still have not actually proved that there is a creator or intelligent design. try harder.
I've picked the easy responses to the below:
"2.)Nothing in the Holy Bible has ever been prove historically or scientifically inaccurate."
earth centre of the universe? earth made in 7 days? earth only several thousand cept it as fact) you may as well preach to someone who is stupid enough to care.
1.) Science has never proven the Earth was not created in 7 days. Carbon dating and other means of fossil dating are inaccurate. There are petrified trees that are found through layers of fossil that are supposedly millions of years old. And, as any person of the smallest 5th grade understanding knows, the rings in a tree tell its age. Now, if these petrified trees grow through that many layers of rock that are supposedly millions of years old, why are they still standing? Did you know you can petrify a pickly by yourself in a single year? Put it in a jar and then put it in your cellar. I believe you immerse it in water. Go see your 2 billion year old pickle next year. No, do your research Rolfey! God's Word is true and never has been disproven!
2.) Where in the Bible does it say that the Earth is the center of the Universe? If it does say that, maybe it really means that the Earth with His children is the apple of His eye, because we must refer to ancient Hebrew understandings to validate the truth of the Word of God and many Bibles today rely on those accurate translations. But, I do know the Bible says someplace or a lot of places - rather insinuates - a man is a FOOL to doubt the Lord God Almighty who rules over Heaven and Earth.
3.) And, yes, the Earth could be only 7 thousand years old. We are still finding prehistoric fish in the oceans off Japan that are supposedly extinct. In the past 5,000 years, some people in the Brazilian rainforest swear they have seen teradactyls. How is that possible? Could it be the real reason the dinosaurs do not exist are because they are not EXTINCT!? Perhaps there are fewer of them now because of men of the past going on their "dragon" expeditions. Might be why the dragon legend is imbeded in history - especially in China. In Newport, Oregon (where I'm at) we have a huge prehistoric dragon with viscious teeth stuffed and on display on the Aquarium village. Yeah, they found it dead on the shore.
Rolfey, you can never disprove the Word of God and neither can science. They've tried. Many men who war against the truths of God to give themselves more reason to beat their wives, lie, cheat, steal and dishonor their mothers and fathers, have attempted to prove what you are saying is true - that the Word of God is a lie! That the Holy Bible has mistakes. Just like scientists doubting that Abraham was in UR! For years they said, "No, this place never existed! It never did!" Then, they end up digging up an ancient stone circa around the time of Abraham that has engraved on it: "UR!"
No, I may not be able to prove with 100% certainty that God exists. The rest takes faith, and men have little this day and time. But, if one person calls you a duck, you can say it's not true. If two people call you a duck, just think about it. But, if three people call you a duck, you better start quacking. There is more proof for Jesus Christ and the Word of God than there is that proves He does not exist! There is more reason to believe than not to believe - by far a wealth of information and a vast string of knowledge spanning from cosmology, astronomy and physics. Rolfey, there is a philosopher who once came up with this wise thought: If God does not exist and hell does not exist but I am believing in Him, then what do I lose by believing in Him if I am wrong? But, if I am right! Oh boy! If I am right, I will be living with the one and only Son of God whose Kingdom has no ending, whose glory is everlasting. But, if I do not believe, what do I gain if I am wrong? Eternal damnation. Fire. Disaster. Sadness. Separation from the eternal God who created Heaven and Earth. Now, if I'm playing chess, I try to play the winning move - the one with least risk. I believe the Christian in those turns would be considered the winner in this chess match. There is no sense in doubting the God whose fingerprint is written in my genetic code, in the trees, in the sky, in the love we feel for our brothren, in the immense creative genius of a galaxy that we (along with all our greatest minds throughout time) have yet to fully understand. Do not doubt God! Get to know your creator, for God's Son Jesus Christ calls you to His throne of Glory. Salvation and Love be His dominion, and His Kingdom is for everlasting. He will not give you water to drink, but water for your soul, and your sins will be washed away with renewed hope, love and happiness. What must a man fear who has God at His back!??? His flesh is like dust in the wind, but his soul is eternal. The man without the Bread of Life is only dust to be blown away by time. But, the man who has the Lord Jesus Christ (the Bread of Life) has eternal glory with his creator!
16 Feb 06
1 edit
Originally posted by powershakertaken from wikipedia:
The center of the universe? What scripture are you referring to? And, the Earth was created in 7 days. That has never been disproven by science. Carbon dating is inaccurate and so are a lot of isotopic measurements of age. Do you research. Nothing in the Bible has ever been disproven by science to a 100% certainty. Nothing.
"Modern geocentrists point to some passages in the Bible, which, when taken literally, indicate that the daily apparent motions of the Sun and the Moon are due to their actual motions around the Earth rather than due to the rotation of the Earth about its axis. One is Ecclesiastes 1:5:
The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
Another is in Joshua 10, 10–14, where the Sun and Moon are said to stop in the sky:
Then Joshua spoke to the Lord, in the day that he delivered the Amorrhite in the sight of the children of Israel, and he said before them: Move not, O sun, toward Gabaon, nor thou, O moon, toward the valley of Ajalon. And the sun and the moon stood still, till the people revenged themselves of their enemies.
A suggestion that the Earth is stationary is Isaiah 66:1:
Thus saith the Lord: Heaven is my throne, and the earth my footstool. "
admittedly nothing actually to state the earth is the centre of the universe but an undoubted reference to the sun and moon stopping so they can have light to defeat their enemies. for the sun to stop, the earth would have had to stop (as i'm sure even you know we orbit the sun, not the other way around). are you seriously trying to tell me that this tripe is fact?
reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_geocentrism#Biblical_references
also, you say the earth was made in seven days. you prove it. I've already submitted proof that the bible is wrong so the fact it is written there is irrelevent. part the sea so people could escape?! luaghable! how long would the walk have taken to cross a sea bed on foot?!!!! what of the environmental consequences? fantasy, pure and simple.
16 Feb 06
Originally posted by RolfeyNo, what you just quoted never said the Earth is in the "centre" of the universe. Also, could not God who made it stop it so they could go to war? Would not the one who made the universe make then Sun and Moon stop in their places so they could fight? It seems to me if I make a basketball out of rubber. I can move it wherever I please. 🙂 HAHA You're hilarious.
taken from wikipedia:
"Modern geocentrists point to some passages in the Bible, which, when taken literally, indicate that the daily apparent motions of the Sun and the Moon are due to their actual motions around the Earth rather than due to the rotation of the Earth about its axis. One is Ecclesiastes 1:5:
The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, ...[text shortened]... ss a sea bed on foot?!!!! what of the environmental consequences? fantasy, pure and simple.