TO ALL OF REDHOTPAWN

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
There is no proof for intelligent design. None whatsoever.

Yes there is! Read "Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. Study up before you deny it. 🙂

Originally posted by powershaker
Yes there is! Read "Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. Study up before you deny it. 🙂

i refuse to purchase such drivel and support any fanatics wild claims. i have perused his website and it seems that no, there is still no proof, just his own theories.

still faith, not fact.

Originally posted by powershaker
Yes there is! Read "Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. Study up before you deny it. 🙂

I'll start things simple for you. Read A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson. Study up before you claim the entire scientific community (excluding wackjobs and agenda pushers) is wrong.

Originally posted by welsharnie
Man created the numerical system, and part of the basis of it was 1+1=2, to try and claim that 1+1= something other than 2, is folly.

Yep, and it's folly to doubt the Lord of Hosts.

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
I'll start things simple for you. Read A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson. Study up before you claim the entire scientific community (excluding wackjobs and agenda pushers) is wrong.

Why don't you get your Bill Bryson to debate William Lane Craig, and who ever wins, then I'll believe you, Xanthos. Because, William Lane Craig has tore apart anyone who has ever debated him. Read "The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. I've heard enough of science trying to prove "something" came from "nothing." By the way, I believe Bryson is mentioned in "The Case for a Creator." His entire stance deteriorates under scruntiny.

Originally posted by Rolfey
i refuse to purchase such drivel and support any fanatics wild claims. i have perused his website and it seems that no, there is still no proof, just his own theories.

still faith, not fact.

No, not his own theories. Lee Strobel interviews many of the greatest minds in the world, and if you'd read the book, you'd agree with me that there is utter proof for "intelligent design" to an astronomical certainty.

Originally posted by powershaker
Why don't you get your Bill Bryson to debate William Lane Craig, and who ever wins, then I'll believe you, Xanthos. Because, William Lane Craig has tore apart anyone who has ever debated him. Read "The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. I've heard enough of science trying to prove "something" came from "nothing." By the way, I believe Bryson is mentioned in "The Case for a Creator." His entire stance deteriorates under scruntiny.

The Strobel book you are talking about is deliberately one-sided and the "experts" within it are mainly non-scientists.

You are reading to confirm you beliefs, not to question them. Fine. Just don't expect others to do the same.

Originally posted by powershaker
Why don't you get your Bill Bryson to debate William Lane Craig, and who ever wins, then I'll believe you, Xanthos. Because, William Lane Craig has tore apart anyone who has ever debated him. Read "The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. I've heard enough of science trying to prove "something" came from "nothing." By the way, I believe Bryson is mentioned in "The Case for a Creator." His entire stance deteriorates under scruntiny.

I had never heard of William Lane Craig so I looked him up. He has a BA from Wheaton College (a private, conservative evangelical Protestant liberal arts college located in Wheaton, Illinois), two MAs from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (an unaccredited evangelical Christian seminary located in Deerfield, Illinois) and two doctorates (philosophy and theology) for work done under John Hicks and Wolfhart Pannenberg (both Christian). He is also a Fellow of the Alexander von Humboldt Stiftung which sounds impressive but a little digging shows they give out 600 of those a year to pretty much anyone who applies.

Surely he is utterly qualified to argue anything on a scientific basis. In fact this is evidenced by his major reasoning which goes as follows:
1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe must have a cause.

That's it. If it didn't assume anything all it would prove is that something caused the universe. Not that God did or that God exists. Pick your advocates better.

Originally posted by powershaker
No, not his own theories. Lee Strobel interviews many of the greatest minds in the world, and if you'd read the book, you'd agree with me that there is utter proof for "intelligent design" to an astronomical certainty.

as it's clear i'll never read this book written by morons, why don't you quote something out of it that will prove creationism/intelligent design is fact.

good luck, you're bound to need one of those mythical miracles to pull it off.

Originally posted by powershaker
No, not his own theories. Lee Strobel interviews many of the greatest minds in the world, and if you'd read the book, you'd agree with me that there is utter proof for "intelligent design" to an astronomical certainty.

Perhaps you'd care to ellucidate on the 'utter proof' for ID. As far as I can tell, having read on the subject, there is anything but 'utter proof'.

Originally posted by dottewell
The Strobel book you are talking about is deliberately one-sided and the "experts" within it are mainly non-scientists.

You are reading to confirm you beliefs, not to question them. Fine. Just don't expect others to do the same.

No they are not! The scientists in the book he interviews are world reknown! Look in the book! My goodness! These people are Yale grads, Princeton grads... You must have looked at the wrong book, or rather, you never looked.

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
I had never heard of William Lane Craig so I looked him up. He has a BA from Wheaton College (a private, conservative evangelical Protestant liberal arts college located in Wheaton, Illinois), two MAs from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (an unaccredited evangelical Christian seminary located in Deerfield, Illinois) and two doctorates (philosophy and t ...[text shortened]... omething caused the universe. Not that God did or that God exists. Pick your advocates better.

That's not the only person in that book ("Case for a Creator"😉 Xanthos. And, his three points are philisophical in origin. And, didn't you say he had a doctorate in Philosophy? Get real! He's only one of the men interviewed in that book. Read the book! Geez! Then, critique it!

Originally posted by Starrman
Perhaps you'd care to ellucidate on the 'utter proof' for ID. As far as I can tell, having read on the subject, there is anything but 'utter proof'.

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe must have a cause.


There's your proof. Xanthos helped me out.

God created it all!

Originally posted by Rolfey
as it's clear i'll never read this book written by morons, why don't you quote something out of it that will prove creationism/intelligent design is fact.

good luck, you're bound to need one of those mythical miracles to pull it off.

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe must have a cause.


There's your proof.

But, let me add my own numbers too:

1.)Nothing in the words of the Holy Bible has ever failed mankind!
2.)Nothing in the Holy Bible has ever been prove historically or scientifically inaccurate.
3.)Israel fulfilled the major prophecy in the Holy Bible by becoming a nation once more in 1948 just like God promised.
4.)European Union's mural is the woman riding the beast out of REvelation.
5.)The coinage of the European Union (the 12 stars) represents the crown on the head of Marry - or rather the Woman of the Apocalypse.
6.) On no other planet in our Milky Way could we have as good of a seat to view the rest of the universe like on planet Earth. This means God did not only make the universe, but he positioned it just so that we could witness it and appreciate it.

But, no matter how much proof I give you, you will continue to deny Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of the World. He who comes to Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world. He is giving you every opportunity to accept HIs love He has freely given through His Son Jesus Christ. It is up to you to choose Heaven or Hell, and don't think of Hell as a place where a little devil with a pitch fork resides. It's far worse than that. To forever be separated from a loving God would be the worst of all nightmares. Not to mention the flames. That's why God is giving every one every single chance to repent and be saved. But, some of the people on Earth will left here after the Rapture and they will be saved during the Tribulation by the grace of God. Why not accept Him now and be raptured up with the King of Kings and Lord of Lords? I wouldn't want to be here during the tribulation!

Originally posted by powershaker
No they are not! The scientists in the book he interviews are world reknown! Look in the book! My goodness! These people are Yale grads, Princeton grads... You must have looked at the wrong book, or rather, you never looked.

How many of them are scientists? Please name five.

How many of them are theologians? How many of them are known to have links with Christian institutions?