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29 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75I would answer that the apostles are men too. Yet their teaching authority is guaranteed by the activity of the Holy Spirit which continues after their death and in fact continued through the Council of Nicaea.
Plus the Bible gives clear warnings that after Jesus and the apostles were gone, false teachings and doctrines of "men" would come into the Christian congregations.
"""""Acts 20:28-30."""""
So since this teaching was in no way shape or form taught by Jesus or the Apostles but out of no where popped up a few hundred years after their deaths, why wou ...[text shortened]... rians opinion, what teaching would qualify as fulfilling these scriptures? Nothing?
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29 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75As I said, I don't expect the Bible to be a statement of doctrine. It is a narrative of God's gradual revelation to mankind and history of salvation. The Trinity is shown in the Bible but never explicitly formulated and I wouldn't expect it to be.
So why isn't it in this creed or doctrinal form already in the Bible? If this is truth then why did it take a few hundred years to get it formulated? Everything that is a truth in the Bible is very clear to understand, is backed up by many other scriptures without any contradictions, was quoted and confirmed by Jesus or the Apostles. Why no mention of this trinity in the Bible at all, anywhere?
And can you comment on my previous post also?
29 Dec 09
Originally posted by Conrau KBut it just seems strange that these new men at Nicaea would some how ok something into the church that was not formerly there and that had it's origins in lands that did not have pure worship to God and were never favored by him. In fact he had a strong hand in there demise? Why did all the former ones that worshipped God in a pure and acceptable way never believed in a triune God but a single God?
I would answer that the apostles are men too. Yet their teaching authority is guaranteed by the activity of the Holy Spirit which continues after their death and in fact continued through the Council of Nicaea.
And what proof is there that the men at Niceae have God's direction on this new belief especially with the clear warnings from Jesus that new false teachings would come sometime in the future??
29 Dec 09
Originally posted by Conrau KSo if you follow along that line of thought it would seem that any idea that anyone might come up with that might not be a truth in the Bible per say, could be indoctrinated into the chuches at anytime and say it is from God??
As I said, I don't expect the Bible to be a statement of doctrine. It is a narrative of God's gradual revelation to mankind and history of salvation. The Trinity is shown in the Bible but never explicitly formulated and I wouldn't expect it to be.
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29 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75But it just seems strange that these new men at Nicaea would some how ok something into the church that was not formerly there and that had it's origins in lands that did not have pure worship to God and were never favored by him. In fact he had a strong hand in there demise? Why did all the former ones that worshipped God in a pure and acceptable way never believed in a triune God but a single God?
But it just seems strange that these new men at Nicaea would some how ok something into the church that was not formerly there and that had it's origins in lands that did not have pure worship to God and were never favored by him. In fact he had a strong hand in there demise? Why did all the former ones that worshipped God in a pure and acceptable way ne ...[text shortened]... ith the clear warnings from Jesus that new false teachings would come sometime in the future??
I am not sure you are listening to me. I am saying that the Trinity is there in the Bible; it's origin is the Bible. And again, the Triune is a single God.
And what proof is there that the men at Niceae have God's direction on this new belief especially with the clear warnings from Jesus that new false teachings would come sometime in the future??
Because he promised the Holy Spirit to his church and guaranteed that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. If you deny this, then how do you even know the veracity of the bible, which after all, was written by men?
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29 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75No. The doctrine clearly has to be biblical. All I am saying is that it does not have to be explicitly in the Bible.
So if you follow along that line of thought it would seem that any idea that anyone might come up with that might not be a truth in the Bible per say, could be indoctrinated into the chuches at anytime and say it is from God??
29 Dec 09
Originally posted by Conrau KBut you still have not addressed the warnings that Jesus very clearly stated about not being fooled by these false teachings and again there is no proof that these men were inspired by God as the Bible clearly says his Bible is and not some writings in the future.
[b]But it just seems strange that these new men at Nicaea would some how ok something into the church that was not formerly there and that had it's origins in lands that did not have pure worship to God and were never favored by him. In fact he had a strong hand in there demise? Why did all the former ones that worshipped God in a pure and acceptable way ne ...[text shortened]... is, then how do you even know the veracity of the bible, which after all, was written by men?
If this new clearification was going to happen in the future about this trinity belief why did not Jesus prepare us for it?
And if the trinity does not qualify as a fullfulment of these warnings, what does? Jesus did not say this just to be saying it.
30 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75For example God told someone in the beginning; "Let's make man in our image." As far as I know there is nothing on this earth that is some type of a 3 in 1 being?
A few simple questions that I have asked a few times and not gotten an answer to is this.
Why does the Bible use the terms Father - Son?
Or the names Jehovah - Jesus?
God Almighty - God?
Why does the Holy Spirit not have a name and some other term applied to it like Son or God or nephew or whatever?
The point of these seemingly simple ques ...[text shortened]... ems there would be some explination in the bible to explain to humans what our God really is?
You are a 3 in 1 being. Body, soul, and spirit.
If it is true that there is a three in one God and all knowing and all powerful then it seems there would be some explination in the bible to explain to humans what our God really is?
This statement makes me think you don't read the Bible.
30 Dec 09
Originally posted by josephwBut I don't profess to be three different beings with two names that can go in different directions, one who cannot forgive what the other two can, I had a diffenent beginning as Jesus did and I am not my father and my son is not me.
[b]For example God told someone in the beginning; "Let's make man in our image." As far as I know there is nothing on this earth that is some type of a 3 in 1 being?
You are a 3 in 1 being. Body, soul, and spirit.
If it is true that there is a three in one God and all knowing and all powerful then it seems there would be some explination in the ...[text shortened]... umans what our God really is?
This statement makes me think you don't read the Bible.[/b]
And I have been reading and studying the Bible since I was 6. How about you?
30 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75You're not God either. And if you've been reading the Bible since you were six, then why don't you understand it?
But I don't profess to be three different beings with two names that can go in different directions, one who cannot forgive what the other two can, I had a diffenent beginning as Jesus did and I am not my father and my son is not me.
And I have been reading and studying the Bible since I was 6. How about you?
I don't know how old you are, but I've been reading the Bible for 28 years. I don't think time is a factor anyway. I know a fella that is just 20 and he can teach me.
I have quoted scripture that supports the doctrine of the triune Godhead. Why don't you address that instead of just giving me your opinion?
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30 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75But I don't profess to be three different beings with two names that can go in different directions, one who cannot forgive what the other two can, I had a diffenent beginning as Jesus did and I am not my father and my son is not me.
But I don't profess to be three different beings with two names that can go in different directions, one who cannot forgive what the other two can, I had a diffenent beginning as Jesus did and I am not my father and my son is not me.
And I have been reading and studying the Bible since I was 6. How about you?
And I have been reading and studying the Bible since I was 6. How about you?
Gosh, you just don't listen. As I have repeatedly said, there are not three beings. There are only three relations within one being. Obviously, since these are relations, the Father and Son are not the same, but in substance, they are one (hence 'I and the Father are one' John 10). And as I have said repeatedly, the gospels do not say that the Holy Spirit cannot forgive while the Father and Son can. It simply says that sins against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven (by the Father or by the Son.)
30 Dec 09
Originally posted by josephwWell it's been close to 50 for me but that's not important is it? And who are you to judge if I don't understand it? Does me being in the minority make me wrong? It would seem that in the history of the Bible and God's dealings with mankind that most of the ones who have the correct understanding of what the truth of the Bible is has been in the minority. But then you should know that as you have been reading the Bible for 28 years so I don't have to quote those scriptures to you do I?
You're not God either. And if you've been reading the Bible since you were six, then why don't you understand it?
I don't know how old you are, but I've been reading the Bible for 28 years. I don't think time is a factor anyway. I know a fella that is just 20 and he can teach me.
I have quoted scripture that supports the doctrine of the triune Godhead. Why don't you address that instead of just giving me your opinion?
30 Dec 09
Originally posted by Conrau KNo it doesn't. Read them again...slowly!!!!
[b]But I don't profess to be three different beings with two names that can go in different directions, one who cannot forgive what the other two can, I had a diffenent beginning as Jesus did and I am not my father and my son is not me.
And I have been reading and studying the Bible since I was 6. How about you?
Gosh, you just don't listen. As I ha ...[text shortened]... ply says that sins against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven (by the Father or by the Son.)[/b]