Originally posted by robbie carrobieI wasn't the one to cite that text, so I claim victory HA!
recieved Christ Jesus the Lord?, in him dwell the fullness of the Godhead bodily? and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power?
the usual trinitarian claptrap and bilge water, you have still failed to answer where the father or the holy spirit are termed the first born.
Originally posted by dueceryou shall claim nothing until you answer, or i will appeal to the atheists to render a judgement!!
I wasn't the one to cite that text, so I claim victory HA!
Galveston and Robbie the Jedi Knights and keepers of the force, 1: Deucer and the Sith Lords 0.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieand you have blindly or perhaps brazenly ignored the very truth. The usage of the term as applied in that context serves for pre-eminance, if it was first created the word would have been different, already answered dude, so yeah...I WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
recieved Christ Jesus the Lord?, in him dwell the fullness of the Godhead bodily? and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power?
the usual trinitarian claptrap and bilge water, you have still failed to answer where the father or the holy spirit are termed the first born.
Originally posted by duecerpre-eminence in your dreams, make with the readies Deucer, where is it applied to the father, where is it applied to the holy Spirit, nowhere, nowhere in the entire biblical cannon, only in your dreams!
and you have blindly or perhaps brazenly ignored the very truth. The usage of the term as applied in that context serves for pre-eminance, if it was first created the word would have been different, already answered dude, so yeah...I WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Originally posted by robbie carrobiewell for starters Jesus is God made flesh, God and the Holy Spirit are the same being, so....I WIN!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!
pre-eminence in your dreams, make with the readies Deucer, where is it applied to the father, where is it applied to the holy Spirit, nowhere, nowhere in the entire biblical cannon, only in your dreams!
Originally posted by duecerwhere is the father termed the first-born NAE WHERE IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE! one would think that he being the father, would be the pre-eminent of them all.
well for starters Jesus is God made flesh, God and the Holy Spirit are the same being, so....I WIN!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!
Originally posted by duecerQuestions about The Trinity, the fallacy behind dispensationalism, and many others can be found easily at
The word trinity does not appear in the bible....nor does the word Lutheraninsm, rapture, millenium, theocracy, Augustiinanism, and many other words in common usage today. To say a word that represents a concept and theology (way we explain God) does not exist therefor it is wrong, is not a valid argument.
Some people contend that trinity doctrines are of ...[text shortened]... way of mutual understanding.
respectful postings only please, and I will return the courtesy
http://www.lutheran-in-sc.blogspot.com/
It may not be the answer you like, but he can back it up.
Originally posted by PinkFloydSorry but I don't see anything mentioned about the Trinity there...
Questions about The Trinity, the fallacy behind dispensationalism, and many others can be found easily at
http://www.lutheran-in-sc.blogspot.com/
It may not be the answer you like, but he can back it up.
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where is the father termed the first-born NAE WHERE IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE! one would think that he being the father, would be the pre-eminent of them all.
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Who is the Divine Father in the Bible ? It is Jehovah.
"But now, Jehovah, You are our Father .... (Isa. 64:8)
Hmmm. The Divine and Eternal Father must be Jehovah. Let's check again.
"But now, Jehovah, You are our Father; We are the clay; and You, our Potter; and all of us are the work of Your hand. Do not be angry to an extreme, O Jehovah ..." (Isa. 64:5,9a
Where else can we find out who the Divine Father of eternity really is? Isaiah 63:16.
"For You are our Father, Since Abraham does not know us, And Israel does not acknowledge us. You, Jehovah, are our Father; Our Redeemer from of old is Your name."
I think Jehovah God is the Father in the Bible. Isaiah 63:16 and 64:5,6 tell me that the Father is Jehovah. I am sure of it. But let's get a third reference to be absolutely sure.
"A son honors [his] father, and a servasnt his lord. Therefore if I am a Father, where is My honor? And if I am the Lord, where is My fear? says JEHOVAH of hosts to you, O priests who despise My name." (Malachi 1:6)
Okay. Here we have not only the people of Israel saying, "You are our Father" but we have Jehovah Himself confirming "... if I am a Father, where is My honor?"
The strong implication to me here is that Jehovah is indeed the Divine and Eternal Father in the Bible. "Our Redeemer from of old is Your name" can also be translated " ... our redeemer, they name is from everlasting" (Isa. 63:16 KJV)
So if the Father's name is from everlasting then His name can surely be called "Everlasting Father". I am sure of this. But wait ....!
Now in Isaiah 9:6 we have this strange verse.
"For a child is born to us, A son is given to us; .... And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father ..." (Isa. 9:6)
Now this Eternal Father must be the same Father whose name is from of old, from everlasting. This must be the one unique eternal and divine and everlasting Father of the whole Bible.
But wait! How strange! The prophecy says that the son ... given will be called ... Eternal Father[/b].
So this means that if I call the Son of God, Jesus, the Eternal Father, then I am simply agreeing with and even confirming the prophecy of Isaiah 9:6. Could it possibly be that a SON could be an Eternal Father ???
Well, it must be that the given SON is the Eternal Father. The same prophecy says that the CHILD ... BORN will be called "Mighty God". But how can a child who spends nine months in the womb of a human mother be called "Mighty God"? This is truly Wonderful. Ooops. His name is also to be called "Wonderful" .... ie. "And His name will be called WOnderul Counselor ..."
Trinity, Shminity ... the pure word of the Bible tells me that the human child is called Mighty God and the Son given is called Eternal Father. That is what it says. And Jehovah is the Eternal Father. So the Son Jesus Christ must be Jehovah God become a man.
Now you can call it "trinity" or you can call it "Gumba" or you can call it "Shumway" or you can call it nothing at all. I don't care. I do care that the word of God says that the Son is the Eternal Father and the child is the Mighty God.
I believe what Isaiah 9:6 says. And a few zealous dudes in Brooklyn NY down at the Watchtower Tract and Bible Society can go door to door and teach whatever they want to teach.
I'm going to go along with the Bible here.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie===================================
as it has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions, the reference to Isaiah is not to the Almighty, it is a completely different word, why you continue to assert that it is, is not only at variance with what the Bible teaches, but is dithpicable!
as it has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions, the reference to Isaiah is not to the Almighty, it is a completely different word, why you continue to assert that it is, is not only at variance with what the Bible teaches, but is dithpicable!
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It is irrelevant to the fact that there is ONE Eternal and Everlasting Father - Jehovah. And the SON given will be called the Eternal Father.
When you have only a hammer as a tool, every problem looks like a nail.
The issue of Mighty God verses Almighty God is not really relevant to the Son being called the ONE and Only and Unique Eternal Father, who incidently is JEHOVAH.
Aside from that in another line of discussion I can show, and have already shown, that the Mighty God is the same as the Almighty God. The Mighty God and the Almighty God are not TWO Gods in the Bible. Appealing to translation of Hebrew to English does not change this.
I can probably prove, and probably already have, that whatever you want to translate what the child is to be called in Isaiah 9:6, elsewhere in the Bible Jehovah God is called that name.
I don't remember any effective rebuttal from you about that.
Originally posted by jaywillyes he shall be called eternal father, for Christ, the life giving spirit, bought back, from that what was lost through Adam, so that all those professing him, shall have life, in this sense he is an eternal father, it does not in any sense make him the father, or the almighty, for if that had been the case, Isaiah would have brought it to our attention, but the fact of the matter is, that he used a different word! not almighty God as you are want to assume and impose upon the inspired word of God, for which you are reprehensible, but mighty god, note that Phrase Jaywill, mighty god, not the almighty, but mighty!
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as it has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions, the reference to Isaiah is not to the Almighty, it is a completely different word, why you continue to assert that it is, is not only at variance with what the Bible teaches, but is dithpicable!
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It is i ...[text shortened]... hovah God is called that name.
I don't remember any effective rebuttal from you about that.[/b]
the divine name is distinct, there is no name like it, and it is represented , in Hebrew by four letters JHVH, the vowels having been lost. Jesus is a different name and a different personage. there is no way that God can die! would you like me to show you where in the bible that is written? there is no way a man can see God and live? many persons saw the Christ. logic dictates, scripture dictate, if we did not declare it, the very stones would cry out, the trinity is a piece of nonsense!
look at this verse!
(Luke 11:11-13) . . .Indeed, which father is there among you who, if his son asks for a fish, will perhaps hand him a serpent instead of a fish? Or if he also asks for an egg, will hand him a scorpion? Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him!”
Holy spirit is given! to those asking! how can a personage be divided up and given to sqillions of persons! it is nonsense!