03 Oct 10
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterhere are some of your finer sentiments,
No, your response wasn't good enough as it was incorrect and serious error in terms of your own organisations doctrine.
Perhaps all the JWs here should open their eyes a little, read up on what your cult actually stands for and make a revised decision on whether you hold all truth or not. At one point Galv actually said no you don't have to be a J 't believe I called your cult "stupid". I stand to be corrected if you can show I did).
'the work of extreme cult thought manipulation and comes from the pit'.
'an affront to humanity and decency',
as i cannot access my private messages, those having been deleted after thirty days, it is impossible for me to show your true vitriolic diatribe at this moment, suffice to say, you stated no less than three times, you had no intention of ever joining, in your own words, although its been disproved now many times through the process of reason, our 'cult',
I don't think we need to take lessons from other so called Christians on what we profess, after all, you changed the goal posts so many times no matter what tune we were playing you refused to dance, first it was, what do i need to do to get to heaven, then it was, what do i need to do to get salvation, then it was everlasting blessings, then it was heaven, everlasting life, salvation and yes or no will do, further more it was shown that you were uninterested in reason,and here you are pontificating to us now from your throne of light, well well, Why dont you ask Noobster what the differences is between, heaven, everlasting life and salvation, let us know how you get on.
i retract my statement that it was not good enough, i posted an excellent post, who go to heaven and why, for the reader that was prepared to use discernment.
03 Oct 10
1 edit
No good if the hungry student lacks the strength to hold the damned fishing rod!actually Agers, if you approached me on the street and were hungry i would buy you something to eat as i have done on not a few occasions, to homeless persons and others, i was always buying food for Hare Krishnis where i lived, they used to ask for milk, butter and some vegetables. I don't live there any more and don't see them. As for drugs, what do you think i am, a doctor? 'here is your regular doze of Tamazepam, here have a leaflet about Jesus', ??? You need to do better than this Agers, the statement stands about helping people live.
We teach people how to live, not in some fairy tale of an afterlife. Your way out on this one Agers, way out. Its the application of Biblical principles in a very re ugs dammit !! and I need them NOW!!!...not some bloody lecture about how to live like Jesus!!!
03 Oct 10
Originally posted by duecerbelieve in higher education???? what about the two Chinese Physicists that live near me? what about my friends wife, a psychiatric consultant? Who do you think designs and builds our Kingdom halls? Architects and engineers of course, our own! What about my friend from Ghana, a research fellow at Glasgow University, where did they get their education, from the back of a cornflakes packet? Jesus loves you win a Play-station 3? More defamation of character, well well, scrimping and scraping on the ground for doctrinal issues not enough now, you need to resort to misrepresentation, what a jive turkey and so near thanksgiving as well!
sometimes, and sometimes its at work, and sometimes while watching your kids play soccer, and sometimes its in the parking lot of a grocery store. One must take every opportunity provided. Christ never limited it to door to door, and btw that is a poor exegetical rendering of the passage, JW leaders would know this if they believed in higher education.
03 Oct 10
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRob, unfortuanately what you fail to realise is that it is you who is on the dark side of the force. Lurking in the world of superstition and myth, you need to be brought into the light of knowledge, logic and reason.
Noobster you were my greatest hope, now you have turned to the dark side of the force! I will never give up on anyone until the door of the figurative ark is closed! You will see paradise, i have hope towards my God that you will!
Actually I can honestly say that i did not know that we professed that you must be part of Jehovahs witnesses to surv ...[text shortened]... r beliefs although i don't think it has any has a bearing on this particular issue, but it may.
As for me becoming a JW, you've got as much chance of that as me buying a Man Utd season ticket waltzing down to the 'Theatre of Dreams' every other weekend in my £50 club colours standing in the Stretford End shouting,
'UNITED!!!!!!..............UNITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!................!UNITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
It just ain't gonna happen Rob.
03 Oct 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Conrau Knothing i just like facetious!
Sure there is a difference. What exactly is your point?
however i am interested in your reasoning of why there is a clergy laity distinction which apparently bars laymen from preaching and teaching! Is this the same in all Churches?
03 Oct 10
2 edits
Originally posted by Proper KnobNot so dear Noobster, why must you trade the temporary nature of this system for everlasting life in a paradise earth? everyone must fill their life with something, indeed as our Christ stated, it leads to happiness, those who are conscious of their spiritual need that is. There is nothing illogical, nor unreasonable nor that which lacks knowledge in the life of a Christian, indeed was it not Pascal which stated that , atheism shows strength of mind, but only to a certain degree. What indeed did he mean? other than that we are interested in transcending ourselves, not with ourselves, but with something transcendent, in our case, the love of the Christ. I will never give up hope on anyone, for indeed the Christian hopes all things, and wish that you will be in paradise.
Rob, unfortuanately what you fail to realise is that it is you who is on the dark side of the force. Lurking in the world of superstition and myth, you need to be brought into the light of knowledge, logic and reason.
As for me becoming a JW, you've got as much chance of that as me buying a Man Utd season ticket waltzing down to the 'Theatre of Dream !!!!!!!!!!!!!!................!UNITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
It just ain't gonna happen Rob.
- Joined
- 15 Sep 04
- Moves
- 7051
03 Oct 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobiehowever i am interested in your reasoning of why there is a clergy laity distinction which apparently bars laymen from preaching and teaching! Is this the same in all Churches?
nothing i just like facetious!
however i am interested in your reasoning of why there is a clergy laity distinction which apparently bars laymen from preaching and teaching! Is this the same in all Churches?
I have already argued from Scripture that not all Christians are required to preach, that this is a special responsibility delegated to a few.
I did not say that all laymen were barred from 'preaching and teaching'. I said that only clergy could preach in the strict sense of the word -- that is, to stand in a church and deliver a homily, expounding on behalf of the Catholic Church. This is a right special to the diaconate. Yes, I believe most Christian churches follow this rule (although the Anglican communion does permit, in the cases of suitably educated men, lay preachers.) Most churches nonetheless do not allow anyone to stand up in a church and preach or to go out in public on behalf of the church and preach.
Of course a laymen can still preach in the way you understand the word. A number of laymen do engage in evangelical work. In Australia there was a very famous man, Frank Sheed, who wrote several apologetic works and would argue in the public square, such as parks, with various objectors. Catholic laymen are not prohibited from this work. They simply cannot preach in a Catholic church in any liturgical context.
By the way, I have no idea why you insist on a distinction between teaching and preaching and then lump them together anyway. Go figure.
03 Oct 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Conrau Kyou have already argued from scripture that not all are required to preach and teach, please cite the scripture and the reasoning, for as far as i can tell, there is none or it was not addressed to me.
[b]however i am interested in your reasoning of why there is a clergy laity distinction which apparently bars laymen from preaching and teaching! Is this the same in all Churches?
I have already argued from Scripture that not all Christians are required to preach, that this is a special responsibility delegated to a few.
I did not say that all l on a distinction between teaching and preaching and then lump them together anyway. Go figure.[/b]
Clearly Christ made a distinction about preaching and teaching otherwise he would not have used two distinct words, indeed, Paul admonishes ALL Christians,
(Hebrews 5:12) . . .For, indeed, although you ought to be teachers in view of the time, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God. . .
As for the clergy laity distinction, when and why did this arise for there is no precedent among first century Christians.
- Joined
- 15 Sep 04
- Moves
- 7051
03 Oct 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou can read my post addressed to Galvo on the previous page. I don't exactly see how Hebrews 5:12 is relevant here. Again, I find it really strange that you distinguish preaching from teaching and then refer to 'teachers' as though this is the same as 'preachers'.
you have already argued from scripture that not all are required to preach and teach, please cite the scripture and the reasoning, for as far as i can tell, there is none or it was not addressed to me.
Clearly Christ made a distinction about preaching and teaching otherwise he would not have used two distinct words, indeed, Paul admonishes ALL Chr ...[text shortened]... stinction, when and why did this arise for there is no precedent among first century Christians.
As for the clergy laity distinction, when and why did this arise for there is no precedent among first century Christians.
Can you offer evidence in the early church that all Christians engaged in preaching? Why in Acts 2 do the Apostles delegate their administrative responsibilities to others so that they can assume the specific task of praying and evangelising?
03 Oct 10
3 edits
i am not in fact saying that preaching and teaching is the same thing, why you have formed this opinion, i do not know.
As for all Christians being engaged in the preaching and teaching work, i asked for evidence to the contrary, i see none.
As for historical evidence that ALL were preachers and teachers, consider the following,
Celsus, the first writer against Christianity, makes it a matter of mockery, that labourers, shoemakers, farmers, the most uninformed and clownish of men, should be zealous preachers of the Gospel.' (The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries, by Augustus Neander; translated from the German by Henry John Rose, 1848, p. 41
Philip Schaff writes: “Every congregation was a missionary society, and every Christian believer a missionary.” (History of the Christian Church)
W. S. Williams states: “The general testimony is that all Christians in the primitive Church, especially those who had the charismatic gift [gifts of the spirit], preached the gospel.” (The Glorious Ministry of the Laity) He also maintains: “Preaching was never meant by Jesus Christ to be the exclusive privilege of certain ranks of the ministry.”
that is before we even touch the inspired text.
03 Oct 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobiewhy must you trade the temporary nature of this system for everlasting life in a paradise earth?
Not so dear Noobster, why must you trade the temporary nature of this system for everlasting life in a paradise earth? everyone must fill their life with something, indeed as our Christ stated, it leads to happiness, those who are conscious of their spiritual need that is. There is nothing illogical, nor unreasonable nor that which lacks knowledge i ...[text shortened]... ope on anyone, for indeed the Christian hopes all things, and wish that you will be in paradise.
Because there won't be a paradise on earth, it's a man made nonsense. I've looked at the claims made in the Bible, ie. How man came about, how life on this planet came about, the story of the Biblical flood. I've then looked at the scientific evidence that man has gathered using logic and evidence based reasoning on these three topics and come to the conclusion that the Bible is incorrect. If the Bible is wrong on these three points, which lets face it are pretty significant issues, then i don't see how it can have any credibility on anything else.
There is nothing illogical, nor unreasonable nor that which lacks knowledge in the life of a Christian.
Well i beg to differ, it's all based on ancient man made stories which are then given 'divine' or 'inspired' status by followers of the faith.
03 Oct 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Proper Knobok, its your choice, although anyone may look at even the same piece of data and draw different conclusions. Its a great pity that we have the potential to live forever yet we only get at present seventy or eighty years, with so much human potential its surely the greatest of tragedies. Even if you get zapped ill try to find you and get you resurrected 🙂
[b]why must you trade the temporary nature of this system for everlasting life in a paradise earth?
Because there won't be a paradise on earth, it's a man made nonsense. I've looked at the claims made in the Bible, ie. How man came about, how life on this planet came about, the story of the Biblical flood. I've then looked at the scientific eviden stories which are then given 'divine' or 'inspired' status by followers of the faith.[/b]