04 Oct 10
Originally posted by Agergone should address the situation of how one came to be in the position and try to address that as well, or are we to disregard that most important aspect?
Fair enough...though I'll say the materialistic help is all that would be of interest to me in a homeless situation - the spiritual guidance would have no value. As for the drugs line, yeah...I suppose I won't get too much mileage with that one given I haven't the experience (see how I back down from and acknowledge a weak argument? :] )
04 Oct 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobiethese people had their degrees before they became JW's I would bet the farm on that. Your organization discourages young people from continuing ed. FACT!
believe in higher education???? what about the two Chinese Physicists that live near me? what about my friends wife, a psychiatric consultant? Who do you think designs and builds our Kingdom halls? Architects and engineers of course, our own! What about my friend from Ghana, a research fellow at Glasgow University, where did they get their educat ...[text shortened]... w, you need to resort to misrepresentation, what a jive turkey and so near thanksgiving as well!
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04 Oct 10
Originally posted by galveston75I do not believe it is selfish. A number of people in this world are not gifted for preaching. They may not have sufficient reasoning or rhetorical ability. They may not have the proper disposition for such a task. Such people quite justifiably remove themselves from that preaching work recognising that they would not be effective. This is precisely what St Paul teaches -- not all are teachers, doctors, healers, etc. Some are called to be like Mary and listen to Jesus; some are called to busy themselves, like Martha. Some spend their life in prayers, others in evangelical work. It is much better than expecting each person to engage in work they are not suited for.
For just one minute lets forget scriptures. Why may I ask do you feel it would not be a loving and obvious life saving work for you to not preach and teach to all you possibly could knowing that there are millions on millions of people out there that do not know or hardly know the Bible? And knowing according to the Bible that it takes knowledge and acti ...[text shortened]... d because they are probably hungry or something!!!.
How completely selfish I would say.
04 Oct 10
1 edit
Originally posted by dueceryou know these people do you? and actually you don't know anything for your prejudice keeps you from learning. two had degrees prior, my friends wife, the psychiatric consultant did not. She subsequently has taken a part time post so that she can devote her time to helping others apply Bible truths, you may bet your farm she has helped more persons that way than you can care to imagine, that's what were talking about, education to support a ministry, as Paul did and the early Christians, anyone for soup?
these people had their degrees before they became JW's I would bet the farm on that. Your organization discourages young people from continuing ed. FACT!
04 Oct 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSpeak it bradda
you know these people do you? and actually you don't know anything for your prejudice keeps you from learning. two had degrees prior, my friends wife, the psychiatric consultant did not. She subsequently has taken a part time post so that she can devote her time to helping others apply Bible truths, you may bet your farm she has helped more persons ...[text shortened]... about, education to support a ministry, as Paul did and the early Christians, anyone for soup?
with crackers pls.
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04 Oct 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobiesorry must of missed that part, where again in scripture does it state that clearly a number of early Christians did not preach? for clearly two of the persons who were given responsibilities by the apostles were zealous preachers, one even being known by his action.
Clearly a number of early Christians did not preach,
sorry must of missed that part, where again in scripture does it state that clearly a number of early Christians did not preach? for clearly two of the persons who were given responsibilities by the apostles were zealous preachers, one even being known by his action.
as for Matthew 28 again ...[text shortened]... eed i am surprised that you even tried to substantiate it. Please don't let it happen again!
Well, it is clear that the commissioning of these seven men was a special event. Obviously the task of preaching was not conferred on each Christian but on a select few chosen for that role.
as for Matthew 28 again your reasoning is truly warped, for Christ qualified the statement or are you unaware that it states, 'look i am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system', which as far as i am aware, has not yet happened, making of course your reasoning , well rather inadequate to say the least.
Hey, I do not deny that Jesus commanded Christians to preach to all nations until the end of the world; I deny that this commandment was directed at every Christian. He said this to his apostles, who subsequently shared that with the successors they appointed. Again, I simply ask that you provide a Scripture quotation in which it is expressly written that each member of the church must preach.
all in all Conrau, you have ignored the historical and Biblical narrative, you have NO evidence that early Christians did not preach and your argument is toast. Indeed i am surprised that you even tried to substantiate it. Please don't let it happen again!
You seem a little confused about what my contention is. I agree that early Christians preached; I deny, however, that each Christian in the early church preached, or was obligated to preach. You need to provide Scriptural evidence of that.
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04 Oct 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut your organisation does discourage further education and these cases of further education are exceptional, right?
you know these people do you? and actually you don't know anything for your prejudice keeps you from learning. two had degrees prior, my friends wife, the psychiatric consultant did not. She subsequently has taken a part time post so that she can devote her time to helping others apply Bible truths, you may bet your farm she has helped more persons ...[text shortened]... about, education to support a ministry, as Paul did and the early Christians, anyone for soup?
04 Oct 10
Originally posted by Conrau KNo it encourages education to support a ministry that is education that is vocational, and they are not exceptional for higher education is a personal decision.
But your organisation does discourage further education and these cases of further education are exceptional, right?
04 Oct 10
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Originally posted by Conrau Ksorry this is completely unsatisfactory, they were assigned to distribute food as the need arose why this should mean that they did not engage in preaching i have no idea, for clearly as in the case of Philp and Steven, they clearly did, you have NO evidence that others also did not.
[b]sorry must of missed that part, where again in scripture does it state that clearly a number of early Christians did not preach? for clearly two of the persons who were given responsibilities by the apostles were zealous preachers, one even being known by his action.
Well, it is clear that the commissioning of these seven men was a special event. church preached, or was obligated to preach. You need to provide Scriptural evidence of that.[/b]
the scripture in Matthew itself is evidence, as it was intended not just for the apostles, but all Christians.
when you have at least one iota of evidence that not all Christians preached then you have something to state, we ourselves have provided historical evidence, biblical narrative and the actual teachings of the Christ, you have produced nada! What is more Christ did not send the apostles out, he led them from the front, like a true shepherd, not sitting in some office pushing pens all day!
04 Oct 10
Originally posted by Conrau KI just gave you this scripture that said diciples were doing the preaching work. Not just the apostles but diciples. Who were the diciples?
Again, I am asking you for Scriptural evidence that there is a universal responsibility to preach. Acts 6 demonstrates quite the reverse. The apostles delegate their administrative responsibilities so that they can preach more. The preaching responsibility seems to have belonged primarily to the apostles and those specially commissioned.
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04 Oct 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobiesorry this is completely unsatisfactory, they were assigned to distribute food as the need arose why this should mean that they did not engage in preaching i have no idea, for clearly as in the case of Philp and Steven, they clearly did, you have NO evidence that others also did not.
sorry this is completely unsatisfactory, they were assigned to distribute food as the need arose why this should mean that they did not engage in preaching i have no idea, for clearly as in the case of Philp and Steven, they clearly did, you have NO evidence that others also did not.
the scripture in Matthew itself is evidence, as it was intended ...[text shortened]... led them from the front, like a true shepherd, not sitting in some office pushing pens all day!
Again, you fail to understand what is happening. I am not arguing that they did not preach; I am arguing that the apostles had a special preaching role.
the scripture in Matthew itself is evidence, as it was intended not just for the apostles, but all Christians.
I do not believe that it is evident at all. Jesus instructs the apostles both to teach to all nations and to baptise as well. Jesus here is clearly assigning the apostles a special ministry which does not include all disciples.
when you have at least one iota of evidence that not all Christians preached then you have something to state, we ourselves have provided historical evidence, biblical narrative and the actual teachings of the Christ, you have produced nada! What is more Christ did not send the apostles out, he led them from the front, like a true shepherd, not sitting in some office pushing pens all day!
But that's not the point. Even if I cannot prove that not all Christians preached, that does not amount to a positive commandment that all Christians must preach.
04 Oct 10
How all Christians should be teachers. While relatively few served as teachers in the congregation itself, the desirable goal for all Christians was to have the ability to teach their beliefs to others, at least privately. This point was made clear to Hebrew Christians: “Although you ought to be teachers in view of the time, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God.” As the Jews had been the first to receive the good news about the Christ, they really should have been, not spiritual babes, but examples in Christian maturity and ability to teach others. (Heb 5:12–6:2) Thus the inspired writer is here evidently speaking of teaching in a general sense, rather than in an appointed capacity. Somewhat similar, therefore, is his reference to the Jew who, on the basis of his knowledge, becomes “a corrector of the unreasonable ones, a teacher of babes.” (Ro 2:17-20) Paul shows, however, that in such teaching also one’s life course must harmonize with what is taught if the teaching is to bring honor to God.—Ro 2:21-24.
Christians could also learn from one another. Younger women, for instance, could be taught by aged women about such matters as ‘loving their husbands, loving their children, being sound in mind, chaste, workers at home, good, subjecting themselves to their own husbands, so that the word of God may not be spoken of abusively.’ Such teaching in private was effective when backed up by a good example.—Tit 2:3-5; compare 2Ti 1:5; 3:14, 15.
Romans 2:17-20 (New International Version)
17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth—
04 Oct 10
Originally posted by Conrau KBut why would a knowledgable Christian not want to teach all he can? Is not one life not worth the work?
[b]sorry this is completely unsatisfactory, they were assigned to distribute food as the need arose why this should mean that they did not engage in preaching i have no idea, for clearly as in the case of Philp and Steven, they clearly did, you have NO evidence that others also did not.
Again, you fail to understand what is happening. I am not arguin ...[text shortened]... tians preached, that does not amount to a positive commandment that all Christians must preach.[/b]