sonship, I would have thought most Christians ~ or adherents of any religion, for that matter ~ hold their particular religious beliefs first and foremost because of geography and anthropology: the culture they were born into, the religion of their parents, and the nature of their upbringing. These are probably the predominant determinants explaining the distribution of religions and their adherents around the world. Do you concur with this observation?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by FMFSomewhat I concur but not entirely.
sonship, I would have thought most Christians ~ or adherents of any religion, for that matter ~ hold their particular religious beliefs first and foremost because of geography and anthropology: the culture they were born into, the religion of their parents, and the nature of their upbringing. These are probably the predominant determinants explaining the distribution of religions and their adherents around the world. Do you concur with this observation?
The most enfluencial factors on my Christian life and belief were two servants of Jesus brought up in Mainland China.
And they were culturally products of a centuries long thoroughly non-Christian tradition.
20 Nov 15
Originally posted by sonshipWhich bit don't you concur with? I do not see what is controversial about my observation. You mean 'but there are exceptions, FMF'? No one has claimed that there aren't exceptions - and maybe even large numbers of them.
Somewhat I concur but not entirely.
I have an ex-Muslim friend called Yuli - a woman living in Semarang on the north coast of Java - who believes that the Virgin Mary visited her in her room - she was a college fresher at the time - and comforted her after a period in which she had been sexually abused by her father and her frightened mother had taken her father's side.
Shortly after she converted to Christianity and she was disowned by most of her family and some of her Muslim friends ~ although she made plenty of new Christian friends and she found happiness.
Now, to make myself clear, I am not claiming that geography and anthropology explains the adherence to Christianity of my friend Yuli in Semarang, but it probably does explain the adherence to Islam of her parents, her siblings, her friends, her neighbours, and most of the 80% of the people of Semarang who are Muslim.
And it probably also explains the adherence to Christianity of most of the people who make up 10% of the city's population living, as many of them do, in neighbourhoods that have been predominantly Christian stretching back a couple of hundred years or more.
I don't think this observation is controversial and it is not an attempt to debunk anything ~ and it certainly does not seek to make any claim about how or why some Chinese friends of yours came to be Christians..
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by FMFWhich bit don't you concur with? I do not see what is controversial about my observation. You mean 'but there are exceptions, FMF'? No one has claimed that there aren't exceptions - and maybe even large numbers of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And as a follower of Christ I am concerned about quality of belief and not just quantity.
I have an ex-Muslim friend called Yuli - a woman living in Semarang on the north coast of Java - who believes that the Virgin Mary visited her in her room - she was a college fresher at the time - and comforted her after a period in which she had been sexually abused by her father and her frightened mother had taken her father's side.
I know of a Christian father, whose son was high on LSD. His teenage son walked off a ledge to his death thinking that he saw Jesus. It was tragic and it seems not fair. But God would not be God if He were only the God of easy cases.
The demonic can be dreadful. Getting into the word of the Scripture helps to save from superstition.
Shortly after she converted to Christianity and she was disowned by most of her family and some of her Muslim friends ~ although she made plenty of new Christian friends and she found happiness.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are finding that many from the Moslem countries have dramatic conversions to tell. I know an Iranian couple who have an atypically dramatic encounter which assisted them in believing in Jesus Christ.
Now, to make myself clear, I am not claiming that geography and anthropology explains the adherence to Christianity of my friend Yuli in Semarang, but it probably does explain the adherence to Islam of her parents, her siblings, her friends, her neighbours, and most of the 80% of the people of Semarang who are Muslim.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And it probably also explains the adherence to Christianity of most of the people who make up 10% of the city's population living, as many of them do, in neighbourhoods that have been predominantly Christian stretching back a couple of hundred years or more.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think this observation is controversial and it is not an attempt to debunk anything ~ and it certainly does not seek to make any claim about how or why some Chinese friends of yours came to be Christians..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These brothers were not personal friends of mine. But I do believe that God is moving. And to forward His move in the earth He will sometimes go to "virgin" territory where people are not spoiled by tradition. There to some opened ones He will reveal some deeper truths for the sake of His people world-wide and for the furtherance of His move towards history's climatic conclusion.
My belief is that He went to China to open up some buried truths that needed to be recovered. I do not mean invented. I mean recovered as in something returned to which has been long lost.
www.lordsrecovery.org
20 Nov 15
Originally posted by sonshipAre you suggesting that my friend's vision of Mary was in some way "demonic"?
I know of a Christian father, whose son was high on LSD. He walked off a ledge to his death thinking that he saw Jesus. The demonic can be dreadful. Getting into the word of the Scripture helps to save from superstition.
20 Nov 15
Originally posted by sonshipHow does this conflict with my observation about geography and anthropology? I have known numerous people who converted to Islam from Christianity. And the other way round too. I don't think think this conflicts with my observation either ~ indeed, if anything, it draws attention to the general applicability of the phenomenon we are discussing. I really don't see what happened to "an Iranian couple" you know conflicts with what I said.
We are finding that many from the Moslem countries have dramatic conversions to tell. I know an Iranian couple who have an atypically dramatic encounter which assisted them in believing in Jesus Christ.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by FMFI think I am moving beyond the point you wish to reiterate.
How does this conflict with my observation about geography and anthropology? I have known numerous people who converted to Islam from Christianity. And the other way round too. I don't think think this conflicts with my observation either ~ indeed, if anything, it draws attention to the general applicability of the phenomenon we are discussing. I really don't see what happened to "an Iranian couple" you know conflicts with what I said.
I told you that you had some ground to claim the influence of cultural surroundings.
My thoughts are the same - somewhat true but not entirely.
And my priorities are very much with quality of belief. Sure, I grew up in the home of a Presbyterian seminarian. But I went through a very pronounced phase of looking into Zen and other philosophies.
I am a child of the 60s, so to speak.
My thoughts on your argument remain the same. Certainly there is ground to say cultural surrounding play a big part of one's exposure to beliefs.
If purely so, I should be a dedicated agnostic thinking secular humanist passionately committed to the strongest forms of Evolution Theory.
That is the kind that says " It all evolved. How else or what else is there to understanding about the world or life?"
Geographically and culturally and anthropologically, I should not have escaped the strong tide of the times in this trend of my society.
20 Nov 15
Originally posted by sonshipMost religionists adopt and internalize the specifics of their beliefs from the human environment they are born into. I don't see how the details of your personal circumstances conflict with this.
Geographically and culturally and anthropologically, I should not have escaped the strong tide of the times in this trend of my society.
20 Nov 15
FMF: Do you then doubt the legitimacy of her Christian beliefs?Well you only have reports about the millions of Chinese Christians you haven't met to go on too. Do you have to meet Christians personally and weight the legitimacy of their beliefs before acknowledging their Christianity?
Originally posted by sonship
No, not necessarily. But I only have your report.
20 Nov 15
Originally posted by FMF"Over the years"??
Suzianne, it was you who admitted you are "not exactly trying to communicate anything meaningful" on this forum, not me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed it over the years. You sell your self short. 🙂
This forum is only a few days over a month old.