12 Oct 09
Originally posted by 667joeyes, it is a very astute observation. There is the example set by Christ and the Apostles, a record of which is written in the Bible, and there are the actions of Christians. Anyone, who has an inkling of common sense can see that they are not synonymous and that the vast majority of 'Christians', are simply nominal christians. A Hindu, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi , also observed the same thing, for he is on record as stating to the British viceroy to India at the time, concerning Christians, ' i love Christ, but i despise Christians, for they do not live as Christ did', and who can deny?
It's my understanding that Jesus said to be his true follower, you must sell all your belongings and give the proceeds to the poor, you must love your enemies, and ,if attacked, you must show love and not fight back. How do you call yourselves Christians if you don't do these three things since clearly, most who call themselves Christians don't do these three things?
12 Oct 09
Originally posted by 667joeNow don't quote me here, since I'm atheist.
It's my understanding that Jesus said to be his true follower, you must sell all your belongings and give the proceeds to the poor, you must love your enemies, and ,if attacked, you must show love and not fight back. How do you call yourselves Christians if you don't do these three things since clearly, most who call themselves Christians don't do these three things?
But given that Christ himself wasn't a Christian, and that the religion only seems to have evolved sometime after his death, I would guess that it's entirely up to Christians themselves to determine what characterises a true Christian, and not anything based on Christ's words - assuming that they were actually spoken in anything like this form.
12 Oct 09
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwYou know to be a Christian and truly follow Christ we may just suffer like hell!
[b]"It's my understanding..."
That's right.
Now try to understand.
To really be a Christian one must first trust in what Christ did on the cross on their behalf.
That's the first step.
The second step is to suffer like hell for the rest of your life.
Just kidding!
Being a Christian is simple, but not simplistic. Depending on who yo h is the Word of God. It's the final authority on all matters concerning life and living.[/b]
Manny
12 Oct 09
2 edits
Originally posted by 667joe==================================
It's my understanding that Jesus said to be his true follower, you must sell all your belongings and give the proceeds to the poor, you must love your enemies, and ,if attacked, you must show love and not fight back. How do you call yourselves Christians if you don't do these three things since clearly, most who call themselves Christians don't do these three things?
It's my understanding that Jesus said to be his true follower, you must sell all your belongings and give the proceeds to the poor, you must love your enemies, and ,if attacked, you must show love and not fight back. How do you call yourselves Christians if you don't do these three things since clearly, most who call themselves Christians don't do these three things?
==================================
So that is your understanding ? Keep reading more and see if you can obtain even more understaning.
Niow when Jesus was on the cross and told His disciple John "Behold your mother" implying that He was leaving the care of His mother Mary in His disciple John's hands, it says that John took her "into his own house."
Now if John had had no house he may not have been able to fulfill the request of the Lord Jesus to care for His mother too well after His death.
I think that the instructions He gave to the rich seeker was tailored specifically towards him to deal with his attachment to his material riches.
If you read for a fuller picture of Christian discipleship I think you will not so easily lift simplistic and targeted teachings as general guidelines. At least I think you will consider a larger context.
13 Oct 09
Originally posted by 667joeThe point I was trying to make is that what makes a "real Christian" has little to do with the teachings of Jesus. Thus they can call themselves "Christian" even though they do not follow the teachings of Jesus. As ridiculous as it may sound, following the teachings of Jesus is not required to be a "Christian".
No, I think I have a good idea of what Christians believe. Unfortunately, it has little to do with what Jesus taught. Most Christians believe in the easy part, but don't follow the hard part of what Jesus taught. It's easy to say you believe in Jesus, but very hard to do the 3 things listed at the start of the thread. Unless you take the whole package you are falling short!
13 Oct 09
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneWhat?
The point I was trying to make is that what makes a "real Christian" has little to do with the teachings of Jesus. Thus they can call themselves "Christian" even though they do not follow the teachings of Jesus. As ridiculous as it may sound, following the teachings of Jesus is not required to be a "Christian".
People can call themselves Christian and not have a relationship with
God in Christ, and not care one wit about Jesus, but that is just simply
people putting labels on themselves, being a real Christian is what not
what we do, being one is what God does in us.
Kelly
13 Oct 09
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayMany people "call themselves Christian". Many people say they "have a relationship with God in Christ". Many people say "being [a Christian] is what God does in us". All are "simply people putting labels on themselves".
What?
People can call themselves Christian and not have a relationship with
God in Christ, and not care one wit about Jesus, but that is just simply
people putting labels on themselves, being a real Christian is what not
what we do, being one is what God does in us.
Kelly
John 15:7-11
7 "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9 Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love."
Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day,'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'
13 Oct 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneWhich is my point, if it is just us, that is all it is, if you do not know
Many people "call themselves Christian". Many people say they "have a relationship with God in Christ". Many people say "being [a Christian] is what God does in us". All are "simply people putting labels on themselves".
John 15:7-11
7 "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is gl ...[text shortened]... ill tell them,'I never knew you. [b]Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'[/b]
Him it does not matter what you do or say.
Kelly
13 Oct 09
2 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayMany people say they "know Him". Yet another example of "simply people putting labels on themselves".
Which is my point, if it is just us, that is all it is, if you do not know
Him it does not matter what you do or say.
Kelly
Jesus indicates that what is required is that one "KEEP [HIS] COMMANDMENTS", "[do] the will of [his] Father", not "work iniquity", etc. Those who continue to commit sin, do none of the above. It's about being righteous.
13 Oct 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneHe is one that makes us righteous, it isn't something I want to have
Many people say they "know Him". Yet another example of "simply people putting labels on themselves".
Jesus indicates that what is required is that one "KEEP [HIS] COMMANDMENTS", "[do] the will of [his] Father", not "work iniquity", etc. Those who continue to commit sin, do none of the above. It's about being righteous.
to earn. I am not saying do not do the good works before me, but I
do not rely on them for my grace.
Kelly
13 Oct 09
Originally posted by karoly aczelYou completely missed it. Please go back and reread the exchange.
Now who's comparing apples to oranges????
Fornicating or loss of hair. Surely these are different types of 'sin' ,(or karma), the first of which has little effect on the outside world, while the latter can spawn an evil army.
