15 Sep 22
@fmf saidDon't ask questions you don't want to see the answers for spanky! You claim to be
There's really no point appealing to stuff I haven't believed for two decades. That would be you scraping the rhetorical barrel.
an ex-Christian, so you know what it was Jesus did and what it costs Him.
15 Sep 22
@kellyjay saidYou aren't explaining what he sacrificed. He did something, I get that. But he didn't lose anything. He was God before. He was God during it. And he was still God afterwards. In such circumstances, a few hours of physical pain cannot be described as sacrifice. You aren't answering the question.
Don't ask questions you don't want to see the answers for spanky!
@fmf saidHe who never knew sin became sin on our behalf, who was never separated from the Father was separated and punished by the Father for every stinking evil thing you ever did in your life out of His love for you, and you turned your back on Him, even denying Him. So what was done for you apparently was done in vain as it looks now.
You aren't explaining what he sacrificed. He did something, I get that. But he didn't lose anything. He was God before. He was God during it. And he was still God afterwards. In such circumstances, a few hours of physical pain cannot be described as sacrifice. You aren't answering the question.
15 Sep 22
@fmf saidDon't need or want to know what you believed then, you have turned your back on Him now, and what was is completely unimportant.
What I may or may not have believed in the 1970s, 1980, and 1990s, shouldn't be preventing you from answering a simple question about what YOU believe in 2022
15 Sep 22
@kellyjay saidHe's still God. What has been lost? What is the sacrifice?
He who never knew sin became sin on our behalf, who was never separated from the Father was separated and punished by the Father for every stinking evil thing you ever did in your life out of His love for you, and you turned your back on Him, even denying Him.
15 Sep 22
@kellyjay saidI understand 100% that you believe [1] your God figure has done something for me and that [2] it was "apparently done in vain", but the Jesus figure in your narrative was never not-God, he didn't give up his life, you believe he is still alive, you believe your God figure is still intact and whole, so where is the sacrifice?
So what was done for you apparently was done in vain as it looks now.
15 Sep 22
@rajk999 saidSo why didn't God just forgive Adam? After all, he's the one who sinned. Why all the rigmarole with banishment from the Garden and the rest of the human race and a flood and an incarnation and a resurrection?? God could have simply forgiven Adam and let him stay on in paradise. A father doesn't banish his child from the family home just because the child disobeys once, does he? What kind of love is that which banishes his beloved for the first transgression and condemns him and his offspring to death and disease and toil??
There is no good answer here. From a human standpoint Jesus did nothing of great value. But that is not even an issue neither is it something anyone needs to believe. There are many righteous who will see the Kingdom of God without knowing a single thing about the reasons for the death and resurrection of Christ.
The sacrifice of Christ was an arrangement or promise God ha ...[text shortened]... nd to redeem from the earth all, from Adam to the end of the world, those who keep his commandments.
Jesus was given "authority to destroy Satan" you say. But who put a snake in the Garden in the first place, eh?
15 Sep 22
@moonbus saidAll good relevant questions, to which I have no answers. All questions which I have also asked myself, and the church fails to answer as well [as can be seen here]. Im pretty sure that the Apostles would have grappled with some of these as well.
So why didn't God just forgive Adam? After all, he's the one who sinned. Why all the rigmarole with banishment from the Garden and the rest of the human race and a flood and an incarnation and a resurrection?? God could have simply forgiven Adam and let him stay on in paradise. A father doesn't banish his child from the family home just because the child disobey ...[text shortened]... iven "authority to destroy Satan" you say. But who put a snake in the Garden in the first place, eh?
The bottom line is that while these may push someone away from the church or religion or belief in God, none of these will stop someone from living according to their conscience and doing the right thing. For these people the reward of life eternal awaits them and all questions will be answered.
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15 Sep 22
@kellyjay saidSo are you saying Jesus is sin, if He is the same yesterday, today and forever? Did he accept and was punished for them, but still holy and not actual sin?
He who never knew sin became sin on our behalf, who was never separated from the Father was separated and punished by the Father for every stinking evil thing you ever did in your life out of His love for you, and you turned your back on Him, even denying Him. So what was done for you apparently was done in vain as it looks now.