26 Nov 12
Originally posted by johnnylongwoodyThere was a thread a few years back where 'we' were more or less in agreement (shock horror!! ), about the number of Christian denominations, which was around 40 000.
I agree with you.
Another question I have often asked myself is why?
Why are there so many different branches of Christianity?
If the message of Jesus is simple, then why are there so many different pieces
of the puzzle?
eg: Catholics, Protestants, Methodists, Baptists, JW's, Mormons, etc.
Is there not a one size fits all for the mes ...[text shortened]... religion instead of different religions and different branches within each of those religions.
Wow!! It still makes me think.
Mind you If you have land and money you could prolly buy a church and put up a few dozen worshippers and start your own denomination without much problem.
(money, as long as the money is there, the government will give you your church)
26 Nov 12
Originally posted by kd2aczAs long as we are on the same page then we can have a meaningful discourse.
Well your up to 6 of 28. 😉
In my thinking that means that you try to get into the spirit of the other posters questions/statement(s).
I have seen many atheists on here who geuniely get into the spirit of a christian posters argument ,although they often vehemently disagree with them, just to generate debate.
I , myself have always conducted myself in such a fashion (eversince I got turned onto spirituality), so if I'm talking to a hindu I will attempt to use hindu concepts to explain my point, and also with christians,atheists,etc.
I have a deep held respect for "meeting each other halfway" - whether it comes to spirituality or r'ships with your girlie.
However there is always common sense, like I wouldn't dump the body after my friend killed it - or something like that. If you get my drift/spirit 😉
Originally posted by kd2aczI first came here because I made a complaint over in debates about how creationism was being forced into schools in the US. I was told to 'take it to spirituality spanky' or something like that.
It's a question I have been wondering about for a little while. Why do atheist frequent a spirituality forum? It seems contrarian to me. Are there any atheists that can answer this honest question?
I stayed mostly because I found that I enjoy the debates. I can also give many justificatory reasons, but I suspect the enjoyment of debate is probably the only real reason for my regular visits.
Justification:
1. I have learnt quite a lot about theism, atheism, logic, debate technique, psychology and others.
2. Having been introduced to and read the book "The God delusion", I have come to the conclusion that Dawkins is right about religion in general being harmful to society. I may even take it a few steps further than he does. Thus I feel it is my duty to at least argue against theism and even though I may not convert anyone here, it at least arms me with good arguments I can use elsewhere in the future. I am not a proponent of using force to counter theism, though I might be a proponent of treating it like smoking and demanding that it stay out of schools and government.
3. I am curious about what people really believe. I find most people are not honest about their true beliefs. They say they believe one thing but act as if they believe something totally different. I find this disconnect interesting and I try to get to the bottom of it. I am also interested in why people believe things whilst realising that they are illogical or inconsistent with other beliefs they hold, and how they manage to justify doing this to themselves.
26 Nov 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadJust in relation to point 1, you mention psychology. I would say that should be your main angle of "attack" .
I first came here because I made a complaint over in debates about how creationism was being forced into schools in the US. I was told to 'take it to spirituality spanky' or something like that.
I stayed mostly because I found that I enjoy the debates. I can also give many justificatory reasons, but I suspect the enjoyment of debate is probably the only ...[text shortened]... stent with other beliefs they hold, and how they manage to justify doing this to themselves.
But thats just my opinion.
I just find that it all comes back to understanding psychology correctly, to understanding all that is spawns (theism,logic,debate technique,etc.).
Dont you think?
Of course I'm talking 'wholistic psychology' and not a separate study of the brain and it's functions. ie,whenever you try an experiment you must include yourself in the variables. (if you get what I mean)
26 Nov 12
Originally posted by kd2aczBecause I want to guarantee my flammable soul burns in hell for all eternity by rejecting "G"od, who I not only HATE but secretly know exists because...well...you know.... I hated not being able to sin so I decided for a bit that I wouldn't believe in God (but then the holy spirit made me get bored of that) - oh and I'm only able to lie about that disbelief now because of my sin nature.
It's a question I have been wondering about for a little while. Why do atheist frequent a spirituality forum? It seems contrarian to me. Are there any atheists that can answer this honest question?
So yeah, I come on here because I HATE "G"od and I want to be a sinner (this is the standard fundy line is it not?)
26 Nov 12
Originally posted by AgergThanks for the reply.
Because I want to guarantee my flammable soul burns in hell for all eternity by rejecting "G"od, who I not only HATE but secretly know exists because...well...you know.... I hated not being able to sin so I decided for a bit that I wouldn't believe in God (but then the holy spirit made me get bored of that) - oh and I'm only able to lie about that disbelief no ...[text shortened]... ecause I HATE "G"od and I want to be a sinner (this is the standard fundy line is it not?)
I think the atheist is essentially living in denial, denial of the obvious and inexcusable
realities that surrounds him. How can one examine even a single leaf and not be taken
by its intricacy? Upon examining it will he conclude that it simply happened? That the
amazing process of photosynthesis is the product of non intelligence? That the ability
to take in carbon and give out life sustaining oxygen is the product of a blind and
random force? We the Christian perceive these realities as confirmation of intelligence,
to denigrate them to the realms of non intelligence is to deny the reality, houses do not
build themselves! Is the atheist therefore self deluded? no I say, merely sleeping and
needs to be awakened to these realities, softly and gently lest he become angry.
26 Nov 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobiechristians aren't the only ones that see intelligence in our world. Proponents of panspermia do to, for example
I think the atheist is essentially living in denial, denial of the obvious and inexcusable
realities that surrounds him. How can one examine even a single leaf and not be taken
by its intricacy? Upon examining it will he conclude that it simply happened? That the
amazing process of photosynthesis is the product of non intelligence? That the ...[text shortened]... sleeping and
needs to be awakened to these realities, softly and gently lest he become angry.
26 Nov 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe self confessed 'closed-minded' 'ignorant' man is accusing others of being in denial. Can you get anymore bizarre?
I think the atheist is essentially living in denial, denial of the obvious and inexcusable
realities that surrounds him. How can one examine even a single leaf and not be taken
by its intricacy? Upon examining it will he conclude that it simply happened? That the
amazing process of photosynthesis is the product of non intelligence? That the ...[text shortened]... sleeping and
needs to be awakened to these realities, softly and gently lest he become angry.
The reason why i don't see an intelligence involved in the processes you have described is because i have read numerous science books on the topic which go into great detail explaining how they occur. It's nothing to do with denial. The only denial here is on your part, you deny yourself the opportunity to evaluate the evidence with your own mind and come to your own conclusions. Instead your willfully walking around with your eyes shut, hands over your ears going 'la la la la la la' and have the audacity to accuse others of being in denial.
26 Nov 12
Originally posted by Proper KnobPerhaps if instead of assimilating everything you know and understand of the universe
The self confessed 'closed-minded' 'ignorant' man is accusing others of being in denial. Can you get anymore bizarre?
The reason why i don't see an intelligence involved in the processes you have described is because i have read numerous science books on the topic which go into great detail explaining how they occur. It's nothing to do with denial. T ...[text shortened]... ars going 'la la la la la la' and have the audacity to accuse others of being in denial.
and the diversity of life from third party sources and instead engaged your own mind
via the process of reflection, ironic considering your text, you may draw different
conclusions? Again, its not about me, just sayin.
26 Nov 12
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieLet me get this straight, i on the one hand have read numerous science books about the natural world thus gaining a deeper understanding of the workings of nature. You on the other hand have admitted to not reading any science which contradicts your religious beliefs for fear 'it may diminish your convictions', you also admit to being 'closed minded' and 'ignorant' with regard to such topics. Yet you accuse me of being in denial??!!
Perhaps if instead of assimilating everything you know and understand of the universe
and the diversity of life from third party sources and instead engaged your own mind
via the process of reflection, ironic considering your text, you may draw different
conclusions? Again, its not about me, just sayin.
Taxi for Carrobie!!
Originally posted by Proper KnobLOL, dude, i spent an entire summer studying all different kinds of trees, identifying,
Let me get this straight, i on the one hand have read numerous science books about the natural world thus gaining a deeper understanding of the workings of nature. You on the other hand have admitted to not reading any science which contradicts your religious beliefs for fear 'it may diminish your convictions', you also admit to being 'closed minded' and ard to such topics. Yet you accuse me of being in denial??!!
Taxi for Carrobie!!
classifying, drawing, collecting seeds from etc etc, not for a single moment was I
unconvinced of the harmony, beauty and design apparent in these majestic creations I
was studying and I didn't get that from the books I was reading. Face the facts, your
materialism is a hindrance to understanding reality.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe thing is, a lack of such harmony and "apparent design" would be inconsistent with the physical laws we believe govern the universe. If we were all rolling around with our eyes in our arses, and levitating through freezing cold bonfires then that would be consistent with magic and miracles (i.e. your "G"od).
LOL, dude, i spent an entire summer studying all different kinds of trees, identifying,
classifying, drawing, collecting seeds from etc etc, not for a single moment was I
unconvinced of the harmony, beauty and design apparent in these majestic creations I
was studying and I didn't get that from the books I was reading. Face the facts, your
materialism is a hindrance to understanding reality.
That you acknowledge the harmony manifest in this world is only because if there was no such harmony it would be physically impossible for you to be sat at your computer talking about it.