Originally posted by stellspalfieWhile your assumption would be nice if true, I have witnessed that it is mostly untrue. The bona fide Atheists I've run into on the internet over the past 15 years, almost without exception, strongly oppose open discussion about the possibility of God--apart from discussing how "evil" He is.
i would assume all atheists are open to the possibility that they are wrong. atheist base their views on evidence.
While that has been my experience, I am sure there are a number of Atheists out there with an open enough mind to discuss the possibility and implications of being wrong. But if we want to look at documented testimony to the fact that Atheists refuse to consider the implications of being wrong, we need look no further than the many testimonies of (formerly) prominent scientists who--after openly admitting they believe a Creator may exist--were sumarily and instantly shunned and blackballed from the established scientific community. If a scientist wants to be taken seriously and enjoy a lucrative career, he/she dare not mention a single word in the slightest favor of the existence of intelligent design.
Originally posted by shilohYou sound like an Agnostic to me.
I am entirely open to the possibility there is a Creator. But I do not consider that admitting I am wrong, because I never said I believe there is no Creator. I simply don't believe you can prove there is. You're welcome to try.
There is no way to prove the case for God. I've read all the famous books where the case for God is logically argued by professionals. Even as a Christian, I found their arguments not all that compelling. There is no way to prove something or someone exists that can't be detected by any of our 5 senses.
The most compelling case for a Creator is that the universe--being a complex system--resembles having been engineered. That's not a case for the Christian God necessarily, just intelligent design.
The 2nd most compelling case for a Creator is the countless personal testimony of people who claim to have witnessed supernatural events which demonstrate to them that a God exists. For the billions of believers to all be gullible, foolish, ignorant, and/or compulsive liars--is highly unlikely.
9 out of 10 believe in a god, or God, or Creator of some kind. It's possible that the 1 out of 10 have it right, but just from a probability standpoint, they are more likely wrong than right. That doesn't mean Atheists aren't right, so I hope I don't get accused of suggesting it.
If I approach the scene of an accident and 9 people say Mr. X ran a red light, and 1 person says the light was green when Mr. X went through the intersection -- if I had to say one way or the other, I'd side with the 9. I could be wrong in the end, but there is just no compelling reason for me to side with the 1.
Originally posted by sumydidIf I approach the scene of an accident and 9 people say Mr. X ran a red light, and 1 person says the light was green when Mr. X went through the intersection -- if I had to say one way or the other, I'd side with the 9. I could be wrong in the end, but there is just no compelling reason for me to side with the 1.
You sound like an Agnostic to me.
There is no way to prove the case for God. I've read all the famous books where the case for God is logically argued by professionals. Even as a Christian, I found their arguments not all that compelling. There is no way to prove something or someone exists that can't be detected by any of our 5 senses.
The most com d be wrong in the end, but there is just no compelling reason for me to side with the 1.
Ok, now consider that 9 of your witnesses attest that Mr X ran a purple light - it's not purple now, and apart from that one time, nobody's ever even seen a purple light, but those 9 witnesses are absolutely certain. The one other witness on the other hand says it was green. Also there's a security camera on the lights, and it doesn't show anybody tinkering with the lights in the intervening time. Also those 9 witnesses are members of a club called the "Purple Traffic Lights Do Exist" Society. Now do you see a compelling reason to side with the one?
edit: Incidentally, the atheist tag is correctly applied to one not having a belief in god. It doesn't imply holding to the belief that there is no god despite the fact that the majority of people seem unaware of this distinction. The position Shiloh is espousing could be termed agnostic atheism, but it is certainly atheism.
15 Dec 12
Originally posted by shilohI am reading a book by a former atheist about Christ. The book's format is in investigative form and is pretty interesting thus far. When I bought the book, I bought a couple of extra copies and feel compelled to offer them to folks (folks who have shown to be atheists, christians are exempt) here on this forum. If you are open like some proclaim here I will offer the book to you for free and will send it to you wherever you are in the world on my dime. I will not mention your name or acknowledge you in anyway if you take me up on this offer, so there is absolutely nothing to loose. If you like it say thanks.. If not say thanks anyway. If you want the book. PM me with your name and address and I will send it out to you. I only have a couple of copies and will mail to the firsts to respond.
I am Agnostic. Most true Atheists (who know what the word means) are Agnostic. Gnosticism=having knowledge of. Theism=the belief in a diety. Agnostic Atheism means I don't believe in a diety, but I know I could be wrong.
-k