What does Jesus want from us?

Originally posted by chaney3
Good post Dive. Both yourself and FMF have contributed insightful and thoughtful opinions in this thread regarding Jesus. Thanks.

Boy that was painful. 😉

And now, according to twitehead, there seems to be another choice with Jesus that I had never heard of: Christian Atheist. Add it to the pile, I guess.

As you add these definitions of Christian to your metaphorical "pile" do you feel you are getting closer, or further away, from deciding if you are one or not?

Originally posted by divegeester
I dont disagree with the philosophy as it's entirely possible, although in my opinion it is probably an uncommon scenario.

If someone did not believe Jesus existed then they are by default concluding that someone else wrote his teachings. Calling yourself a Christian in that circumstance would be very odd as you would not be being honest with yourself or those around you.

Good points, but I would take it a step further. FMF has just described that he believes Jesus existed, as a Jewish Rabbi 'only', with no divinity at all. Technically then, could he claim to be a Christian? If he followed the principles and teachings of the 'Jesus' he believed existed?

Originally posted by chaney3
Good points, but I would take it a step further. FMF has just described that he believes Jesus existed, as a Jewish Rabbi 'only', with no divinity at all. Technically then, could he claim to be a Christian? If he followed the principles and teachings of the 'Jesus' he believed existed?

Technically he could call himself a Chrisitan for whatever reason he chose. He has chosen to call himself an ex-Christian, so presumably he held, and still holds, an opinion of what a Christian is, albeit that he doesn't ascribe that model to himself anymore.

Originally posted by chaney3
So what you are suggesting is that even if a person does NOT believe that Jesus even existed, they still call themselves a Christian because they are following his teachings?

I would assume that most Christians who actually believe in Jesus (whether human or God) would disagree with that philosophy?

We now live in a world where a man can call himself a woman and go into lady's
bathrooms and locker rooms. Do you think what people call themselves is meaningful in
reality or does reality have something to say about what everything is or is not? Can I call
myself an Eagle and then fly to the mountain tops, or am I really limited to what I truly am?

If being a Christian is just a word applied without anything outside of verbiage of the label
I choose than anything or one can be a Christian. If being a Christian has meaning toward
God, than what we say or think about the term loses out to what God accepts or rejects.

Originally posted by KellyJay
We now live in a world where a man can call himself a woman and go into lady's
bathrooms and locker rooms. Do you think what people call themselves is meaningful in
reality or does reality have something to say about what everything is or is not? Can I call
myself an Eagle and then fly to the mountain tops, or am I really limited to what I truly am?

I ...[text shortened]... toward
God, than what we say or think about the term loses out to what God accepts or rejects.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, and whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

"whoever believes in Him".......those 4 words seem to have unlimited amounts of meanings to the world, and the criteria to claim oneself a Christian seems to be different depending on who you speak to.

Originally posted by chaney3
John 3:16 For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, and whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

"whoever believes in Him".......those 4 words seem to have unlimited amounts of meanings to the world, and the criteria to claim oneself a Christian seems to be different depending on who you speak to.

yes, the happy clappy tambourine playing brigade claim that Gods love is unconditional but from the scripture that you cite its clear that its dependent upon putting faith in Jesus.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes, the happy clappy tambourine playing brigade claim that Gods love is unconditional but from the scripture that you cite its clear that its dependent upon putting faith in Jesus.

We've been over this before and you were unable then to substantiate your claim that gods love is conditional, you can try again if you choose.

Meanwhile can you answer the question I put to you all the time, and indeed just this last week and you fail to answer: does a person need to be me a member of your religious organisation as a prerequisite of gaining access to eternal life?

Originally posted by chaney3
John 3:16 For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, and whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

"whoever believes in Him".......those 4 words seem to have unlimited amounts of meanings to the world, and the criteria to claim oneself a Christian seems to be different depending on who you speak to.

Then stop asking people and seek God for yourself. I asked you on the other thread if you are getting nearer of closer to understanding what it is to be a Christian and you declined to answer, I wonder why. I think I know why. I think you don't want to know the answer, I think you like to kick up the silt, you like to muddy the waters so you can feel like you are unaccountable to the god you have rejected; hiding instead behind this facade of the incomprehensible. The Bible is clear if you read it:
Seek and you will find
When you seek him with all your heart, you will find him
Knock and it will be opened for you
Repent and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ
Believe in your heart (truly) and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord...And you will be saved.

These are all scriptures. You're pretty well read on them, so stop messing about and make a stand.

Originally posted by divegeester
We've been over this before and you were unable then to substantiate your claim that gods love is conditional, you can try again if you choose.

Meanwhile you answer the question I put to you all the time, and indeed just this last week and you fail to answer: does a person need to be me a member of your religious organisation as a prerequisite of gaining access to eternal life?

I already did substantiate the claim its not my fault if you failed to discern the fact and I am not here to be subjected to your incessant interrogation and tedious forum manner. You are simply an FMF clone.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I already did substantiate the claim its not my fault if you failed to discern the fact and I am not here to be subjected to your incessant interrogation. and tedious forum manner. You are simply an FMF clone.

Suit yourself. We are discussing the author life here would you like to join in?

And I don't mean your second saviour along with the "Almighty" Jehovah; the "Mighty God" of Isaiah who is your version of Jesus, who you claim is also an angel.

Originally posted by divegeester
Suit yourself. We are discussing the author life here would you like to join in?

And I don't mean your second saviour along with the "Almighty" Jehovah; the "Mighty God" of Isaiah who is your version of Jesus, who you claim is also an angel.

I will suit myself and there have been many threads on the meaning of the term 'Mighty God' and how it differs from 'Almighty God' and also the scriptural reasons for Jesus being considered an archangel or messenger of God, its not my fault you have not understood a single one of them. Perhaps you are too arrogant or blinded by prejudice. Who can say?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I will suit myself and there have been many threads on the meaning of the term 'Mighty God' and how it differs from 'Almighty God' and also the scriptural reasons for Jesus being considered an angel or messenger of God, its not my fault you have not understood a single one of them.

- You have two Gods. Jesus who is "Mighty God" (from Isaiah) and Jehovah who is "Almighty" God
- Your "Mighty God", Jesus, is also an angel
- Jesus and Jehovah are separate entities. So, you have two saviours
- one of your saviours in an angel
- you have two "Alphas and Omegas"

Originally posted by chaney3
FMF has just described that he believes Jesus existed, as a Jewish Rabbi 'only', with no divinity at all. Technically then, could he claim to be a Christian? If he followed the principles and teachings of the 'Jesus' he believed existed?

No. I don't think so, at all. I think a "Christian" has to believe that Jesus "saves" people in a supernatural way. And I don't. So I cannot and do not claim to be a Christian.

Originally posted by divegeester
- You have two Gods. Jesus who is "Mighty God" (from Isaiah) and Jehovah who is "Almighty" God
- Your "Mighty God", Jesus, is also an angel
- Jesus and Jehovah are separate entities. So, you have two saviours
- one of your saviours in an angel
- you have two "Alphas and Omegas"

No you neither understand the term 'god' nor understand how it is used in the Bible, infact the Bible terms human judges as 'gods', it terms Satan a 'god' of the system, this again has been explained to you countless times with not a shred of success. Actually Jesus or rather Michael is termed an Archangel, not simply an angel as you have erroneously assumed and if you cannot get that correct its pointless battling against your ignorance. Perhaps if you were not so self assuming it may help you, who can say?

Originally posted by chaney3
Robbie believes in a different version of Jesus, which has led him to the JW.

robbie is a polytheist.