Originally posted by checkbaiterThis is called an open forum.. deal with it... actually go pay your subscription instead of taking a free ride.
And I think you are a fool, and the question was not addressed to you.
The man who ignores half the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles calls the man that accepts all of it .. a fool. You are a true comedian..😀
Your frustration and anger is understandable .. but direct it to those who taught you these false doctrines.
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28 Apr 16
Originally posted by Rajk999Here is what I think. I think you lead people astray and away from the love of God and Christ with your heavy burdens you place on people just like the Pharisee's.
This is called an open forum.. deal with it... actually go pay your subscription instead of taking a free ride.
The man who ignores half the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles calls the man that accepts all of it .. a fool. You are a true comedian..😀
Your frustration and anger is understandable .. but direct it to those who taught you these false doctrines.
You remind me of the demon in the "Screw tape letters", who fooled Christians that they need Christ and....anything you can conjure up.
Your manmade doctrine keeps Christian's in doubt of their salvation, in fear, and hopeless since no one is able to come to God by works.
Martin Luther is a martyr you can learn from. He discovered "Faith in Christ alone"!
The doctrine of sola fide or "by faith alone" asserts God's pardon for guilty sinners is granted to and received through faith alone, excluding all "works".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide
Originally posted by checkbaiterYou are not qualified to 'think'. You are a copy and paste artiste.
Here is what I think. I think you lead people astray and away from the love of God and Christ with your heavy burdens you place on people just like the Pharisee's.
You remind me of the demon in the "Screw tape letters", who fooled Christians that they need Christ and....anything you can conjure up.
Your manmade doctrine keeps Christian's in doubt of th ...[text shortened]... ved through faith alone, excluding all "works".[/quote]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide
Most interesting that a 'Christian' like you thinks that it is a heavy burden to:
- feed the poor
- clothe the naked
- help the needy etc etc.
There are many atheists that do these things willingly and eagerly. They are loving and compassionate while you complain that you have to help those in need .... you are shameless.
Anyway Paul described who the modern day Pharisees are, and it is those who crucify Christ all over again.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV-BRG)
Your doctrine is a shame to Jesus and the Apostles.
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28 Apr 16
Originally posted by Rajk9991. It is a burden because no one can live sin free, that was the purpose for Jesus.
You are not qualified to 'think'. You are a copy and paste artiste.
Most interesting that a 'Christian' like you thinks that it is a heavy burden to:
- feed the poor
- clothe the naked
- help the needy etc etc.
There are many atheists that do these things willingly and eagerly. They are loving and compassionate while you complain that you have to h ...[text shortened]... en shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV-BRG)[/i]
Your doctrine is a shame to Jesus and the Apostles.[/b]
2. The good deeds are a result of the new birth, not a way to earn it.
3. As for your quote, I have explained your error understanding it before.
It is impossible to renew a Christian, because he cannot lose his salvation.
Other wise your corrupt thinking would mean that anyone who sins cannot be forgiven. You are the prime example of the blind leading the blind.
Originally posted by checkbaiterIf you can be so brassfaced to state that the commandments of Christ is a burden then you are not one of His.
1. It is a burden because no one can live sin free, that was the purpose for Jesus.
2. The good deeds are a result of the new birth, not a way to earn it.
3. As for your quote, I have explained your error understanding it before.
It is impossible to renew a Christian, because he cannot lose his salvation.
Other wise your corrupt thinking would mean ...[text shortened]... at anyone who sins cannot be forgiven. You are the prime example of the blind leading the blind.
Is there something that Christ said that makes you think he is interested in who is Christian and who is not? You are making God a respecter or persons... yet another grave flaw in your doctrine:
For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: (Romans 2:11-14 KJV-BRG)
Lots of forgiving will have to take place for people to enter into the Kingdom of God but there are some followers of Christ who will not be forgiven as the Bible plainly states.
The righteous and those that DO the commandments of Jesus will enter into the Kingdom of God, :
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Revelation 22:14-15 KJV-BRG)
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Originally posted by Rajk999'That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.'
If you can be so brassfaced to state that the commandments of Christ is a burden then you are not one of His.
Is there something that Christ said that makes you think he is interested in who is Christian and who is not? You are making God a respecter or persons... yet another grave flaw in your doctrine:
For there is no respect of persons with God ...[text shortened]... rderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Revelation 22:14-15 KJV-BRG)
(1 Timothy 4:10)
I notice it doesn't say 'exclusively' those who believe.
Originally posted by checkbaiterTaking your questions together, it seems that it's a loaded question built upon assumptions that are not supported by the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth.
If not sinning and and being a "good" person, is all that is needed to get to heaven, then what was God's purpose of sending Christ? And why did he have to suffer and die.
This could have been accomplished without him, could it not?
Presumably one assumption would be something you wrote to rajk999:
"It is a burden because no one can live sin free, that was the purpose for Jesus. "
Let's put that under the light of Truth:
Jesus taught the contrary. Jesus taught that His true disciples will be made free from the slavery of committing sin:
John 8
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”...34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
Do you believe Jesus here? Why or why not?
If you believe that while He walked the Earth, Jesus taught that no one can stop from committing sin, then show where Jesus supported this concept.
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28 Apr 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneAre you serious? Of course he doesn't want us to sin.
Taking your questions together, it seems that it's a loaded question built upon assumptions that are not supported by the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth.
Presumably one assumption would be something you wrote to rajk999:
"It is a burden because no one can live sin free, that was the purpose for Jesus. "
Let's put that under the light ...[text shortened]... s taught that no one can stop from committing sin, then show where Jesus supported this concept.
Are you saying you have been set free and no longer sin?
Originally posted by checkbaiterI'm saying that Jesus taught "that His true disciples will be made free from the slavery of committing sin" (not merely that "he doesn't want us to sin" ) which is contrary to what you wrote to rajk999: "no one can live sin free"
Are you serious? Of course he doesn't want us to sin.
Are you saying you have been set free and no longer sin?
I also asked you the following question:
"Do you believe Jesus here [John 8:31,32,34]? Why or why not?"
I also asked you to address the following:
"If you believe that while He walked the Earth, Jesus taught that no one can stop from committing sin, then show where Jesus supported this concept."
This thought is not meant for any poster specifically on this forum, just a thought.
I recently came across a quote from a thread in the General Forum that I had not heard. It's from Merchant of Venice, by Shakespeare.
"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose"
Considering the many, many different interpretations of Bible scripture, and the words of Jesus by Christians and others....is it possible that something else is going on here? There have been a lot of battles between Christians about what Jesus may or may not have said, and what exactly He meant by those words. And at times, Christians are doing battle with each other using Bible verses as proof of who 'knows' the correct teachings of Jesus.
The Bible is supposed to have been a Divine writing given to us by God, but how is it possible that no general agreement can be reached by the people it is supposed to help and guide?
If a person believes in God, then maybe a 'devil' is also possible, and is doing 'his purpose' with the very words designed to create harmony in the first place.
It was on my mind and I wanted to share it.
28 Apr 16
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeEspecially.. an important distinction.. not exclusively..
'That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.'
(1 Timothy 4:10)
I notice it doesn't say 'exclusively' those who believe.
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29 Apr 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYes, he said the truth will set us free.
I'm saying that Jesus taught "that His true disciples will be made free from the slavery of committing sin" (not merely that "he doesn't want us to sin" ) which is contrary to what you wrote to rajk999: "no one can live sin free"
I also asked you the following question:
"Do you believe Jesus here [John 8:31,32,34]? Why or why not?"
I also asked yo ...[text shortened]... taught that no one can stop from committing sin, then show where Jesus supported this concept."
But I don't think people understand the meaning. He cannot or does not control our thoughts, nor free will. He sets before us the word of God and if we walk by the spirit, we will not sin. Do you know anyone who walks by the spirit 24/7?
Here is what Jesus further revealed through Paul...
Rom 7:15-25
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do — this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God — through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
NIV
Here is what Jesus said through John...
1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
NKJV
So, what is Jesus saying in John 8? He is saying if we abide in his word we will not stumble. Again, I repeat, do you know someone like that? Are you free from sin? If you say yes, John says you are a liar.
All men are born into sin and inherit a sinful nature with a tendency to sin(example;Paul in verses above). The difference with Christians filled with holy spirit is now we have a choice.
The other thing Jesus may have been saying is in the spirit (holy spirit in us) we cannot sin. The spirit part of us is perfect and incorruptible. It remains, (cannot be lost).
1 John 3:7
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
NKJV
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29 Apr 16
Originally posted by chaney3The devil and his host are absolutely at work!
This thought is not meant for any poster specifically on this forum, just a thought.
I recently came across a quote from a thread in the General Forum that I had not heard. It's from Merchant of Venice, by Shakespeare.
"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose"
Considering the many, many different interpretations of Bible scripture, and the wo ...[text shortened]... ds designed to create harmony in the first place.
It was on my mind and I wanted to share it.
He has control over the whole world and is desperately trying to persuade people into religiosity. He wants people to think God sits in heaven with a hammer waiting for people to "slip up".
Nothing could be further from the truth! God is also NOT holding your salvation over your head waiting for you to sin so he can throw you in hell.
It is just the opposite.. God is love, he saves to the uttermost. You cannot lose your salvation. Once you become a child of God, it is permanent! He reinforces this all through the New Testament.
It is Satan, working through people knowingly or unknowingly that keeps people in bondage, fear and depression.
Once you learn that Jesus sets people free, they can become bold proclaiming the praises of God! Believing his promises, we can take comfort and refuge knowing our salvation is secure.
29 Apr 16
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeSlight clarification--- and I won't even go into the original language or any other technical stuff.
'That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.'
(1 Timothy 4:10)
I notice it doesn't say 'exclusively' those who believe.
The work which was accomplished on the Cross (prior to His actual voluntary death) by the Lord Jesus Christ was efficacious for all mankind: no one born between the time of Adam and the last person of mankind will wind up in hell on account of sin.
The debt of sin was paid for all with His substitutionary death.
Quite frankly, no one else was qualified to pay the debt; it took the God-Man in order to even be qualified in the first place.
Only those who reject that gift of His work end up separated from God forever.
That rejection is tantamount to standing on one's own merit instead of accepting His work on their behalf.
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29 Apr 16
Originally posted by FreakyKBHHow do you quantify rejection?
Slight clarification--- and I won't even go into the original language or any other technical stuff.
The work which was accomplished on the Cross (prior to His actual voluntary death) by the Lord Jesus Christ was efficacious for all mankind: no one born between the time of Adam and the last person of mankind will wind up in hell on account of sin.
The ...[text shortened]... tion is tantamount to standing on one's own merit instead of accepting His work on their behalf.