30 Apr 16
Originally posted by chaney3I am an atheist, which does mean that I believe that all the Bible is man made writings. I was brought up an Anglican and did believe God existed until the age of about 12.
I notice that you are the first one who responded to the OP, noting that you read the Gospels. As you are an atheist, do you believe that the Bible is all man made writings? Did you at one point believe any of it?
Just curious, hope you don't mind the questions.
30 Apr 16
Originally posted by chaney3As I have already stated, refused to accept the gift, refuse the exchange: His work instead of my works.
You stated that nobody goes to hell because of sin, due to the sacrifice of Jesus.
However, you also stated it is still possible to be separated from God if you 'reject' the gift. What in your opinion does one do to reject the gift?
If I offer you a seat, you have two options.
Sit in the seat, or...
Don't sit in the seat.
Sitting is tantamount to accepting the offer.
Standing is tantamount to rejecting.
Sit once, and you've accepted (yes, I'm looking at you, twhitehead), regardless of your affiliation afterwards.
01 May 16
3 edits
Originally posted by checkbaiterRead what Jesus said. Let HIS words speak for themselves.
Yes, he said [b] the truth will set us free.
But I don't think people understand the meaning. He cannot or does not control our thoughts, nor free will. He sets before us the word of God and if we walk by the spirit, we will not sin. Do you know anyone who walks by the spirit 24/7?
Here is what Jesus further revealed through Paul...
[quo ...[text shortened]... or His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
NKJV
[/quote][/b]
Here are the words Jesus spoke in John 8:31-35 (with one of the sentences placed first for ease of understanding) It's as simple as 1,2,3,:
1) Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
2)If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.
3) The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
The points Jesus makes are really simple:
1) Everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.
2) His true disciples will be made free from the slavery of committing sin.
3) Those freed will be live in the house forever. Those who remain slaves and continue to commit sin will not.
These are the points Jesus was making to the Jews in His audience. It's really simple and straightforward.
Like the Jews that Jesus was speaking to, YOU also don't believe Him.
All you've done in your post is give reasons why you don't believe Him.
As I wrote to chaney3 earlier:
"Though most refuse to admit it, they pick and choose the verses and passages that support their beliefs and dismiss those that don't and often do so in a most disingenuous manner."
You have dismissed what Jesus said in John 8:31-35, evidently because you don't believe it possible for anyone to stop committing sin.
It's as simple as that. Hopefully chaney3 will reread your posts to me on page 13 of this thread and see how you went about it.
01 May 16
Some thread observations thus far:
Jesus was a human Jewish Rabbi, with no divinity.
Jesus was a human, but the divine Son of God.
Jesus was a human, but God Himself.
Belief in Jesus is not necessary for eternal life.
Belief in Jesus is absolutely necessary for eternal life.
The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross ensures salvation for everyone, regardless of sin.
Because of our human nature, we will always be sinners.
Jesus wants us to be sin-free, and also commands it.
Jesus is the only way to God.
Good works are the way to God.
Rejecting Jesus is bad.
Atheists do not reject Jesus, they just don't believe in Him.
If a person has ever believed in Jesus, it's valid for life, whether that person now claims atheism or not.
The Bible is the divine word of God.
The Bible is man made writings, created by humans.
There are more I'm sure, but each of these has been backed up by Bible scripture and/or personal opinions.
There is something wrong with either humans, the Bible, Christianity, or all of the above to have so many variations of the same person......Jesus, and what He may actually want from us.....if one even believes He existed at all.
01 May 16
Originally posted by chaney3Seems like a completely bungled "revelation" by what is supposed to be a omnipotent God who reportedly sincerely "desires all humans to be saved", wouldn't you say? It's got 'figment of the human imagination' written all over it.
Some thread observations thus far:
Jesus was a human Jewish Rabbi, with no divinity.
Jesus was a human, but the divine Son of God.
Jesus was a human, but God Himself.
Belief in Jesus is not necessary for eternal life.
Belief in Jesus is absolutely necessary for eternal life.
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01 May 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneSo I ask you again. Are you free from sin? Or do you reject Jesus?
Read what Jesus said. Let HIS words speak for themselves.
Here are the words Jesus spoke in John 8:31-35 (with one of the sentences placed first for ease of understanding) It's as simple as 1,2,3,:
[quote]
1) Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
2)If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; ...[text shortened]... ly chaney3 will reread your posts to me on page 13 of this thread and see how you went about it.
01 May 16
Originally posted by FMFIf His "bungled "revelation"" keeps asswipes such as yourself out, I'd say He got it about right.
Seems like a completely bungled "revelation" by what is supposed to be a omnipotent God who reportedly sincerely "desires all humans to be saved", wouldn't you say? It's got 'figment of the human imagination' written all over it.
01 May 16
2 edits
Originally posted by checkbaiterAs I wrote to chaney3 earlier:
So I ask you again. Are you free from sin? Or do you reject Jesus?
"Though most refuse to admit it, they pick and choose the verses and passages that support their beliefs and dismiss those that don't and often do so in a most disingenuous manner."
Your question serves as an example of how disingenuous some people can be when dismissing verses and passages that don't support their beliefs.
Let's say that you found as many as 100 people to answer "No" to your question? Do you believe that that would somehow prove wrong what Jesus said in John 8:31-35? 1000 people? 10,000 people? 1,000,000 people? I think you're intelligent enough to understand that it doesn't. I think you're intelligent enough to understand how disingenuous your question is.
All it might prove is that Jesus was also right when He said the following:
Matthew 7
13“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Once again:
Read what Jesus said. Let HIS words speak for themselves.
Here are the words Jesus spoke in John 8:31-35 (with one of the sentences placed first for ease of understanding) It's as simple as 1,2,3,:
1) Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
2)If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.
3) The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
The points Jesus makes are really simple:
1) Everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.
2) His true disciples will be made free from the slavery of committing sin.
3) Those freed will be live in the house forever. Those who remain slaves and continue to commit sin will not.
These are the points Jesus was making to the Jews in His audience. It's really simple and straightforward.
Like the Jews that Jesus was speaking to, YOU also don't believe Him.
All you've done in your post is give reasons why you don't believe Him.
01 May 16
Originally posted by FreakyKBHYou blurting this out doesn't alter the fact that it smacks of being a figment of the human imagination, and the fact the mythology holds you in its thrall doesn't amount to evidence of anything in particular.
If His "bungled "revelation"" keeps asswipes such as yourself out, I'd say He got it about right.
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01 May 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneSure I believe him, it says the same thing in Romans. He will keep you from sin, if you can resist the sin nature. So I have answered your question. Yes, I believe what he said.
As I wrote to chaney3 earlier:
"Though most refuse to admit it, they pick and choose the verses and passages that support their beliefs and dismiss those that don't and often do so in a most disingenuous manner."
Your question serves as an example of how disingenuous some people can be when dismissing verses and passages that don't support their bel ...[text shortened]... so don't believe Him.
All you've done in your post is give reasons why you don't believe Him.
Now, you have not answered mine. Are you free from sin?
01 May 16
1 edit
Originally posted by checkbaiterUnfortunately it seems you've made yet another disingenuous post.
Sure I believe him, it says the same thing in Romans. He will keep you from sin, if you can resist the sin nature. So I have answered your question. Yes, I believe what he said.
Now, you have not answered mine. Are you free from sin?
For one, I showed the fallacy of your question in my previous post.
For another, if you believe points 1, 2 and 3, then of what relevance is your question?
What's more, based upon your earlier posts, it doesn't seem that you do, in fact, believe points 1, 2 and 3.
Do you honestly believe points 1, 2 and 3 below?
Here are the words Jesus spoke in John 8:31-35 (with one of the sentences placed first for ease of understanding) It's as simple as 1,2,3:
1) Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
2)If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.
3) The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
The points Jesus makes are really simple:
1) Everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.
2) His true disciples will be made free from the slavery of committing sin.
3) Those freed will be live in the house forever. Those who remain slaves and continue to commit sin will not.
- Joined
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01 May 16
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI think you are the one being disingenuous and posting loaded questions.
Unfortunately it seems you've made yet another disingenuous post.
For one, I showed the fallacy of your question in my previous post.
For another, if you believe points 1, 2 and 3, then of what relevance is your question?
What's more, based upon your earlier posts, it doesn't seem that you do, in fact, believe points 1, 2 and 3.
Do you honest ...[text shortened]... will be live in the house forever. Those who remain slaves and continue to commit sin will not.
It is not as simple as 1,2 and 3. What Jesus is saying is not simple. All his words are deep.
He spoke to many in such a way that they would not understand, not because he wanted people confused, but because he wanted genuine disciples, who would dig deeper to uncover truth.
In Romans it basically says the same thing..
Rom 6:16-19
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
NKJV
Notice Paul says he speaks in human terms? He is saying that as long as we sin we become slaves of sin.
Who is the god of sin? Satan...
As long as we become obedient to Christ we become slaves of righteousness.
Who is the god of righteousness? God.
It is very simple now, as long as we abide in doing right, we will be blessed.
As long as we sin, we become slaves of unrighteousness, i.e, Satan.
it is a changing state, we are either blessed or we are cursed, depending on our state of mind.
Rom 8:1-2
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
NKJV
It is a state of mind...
Rom 12:1-2
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
NKJV
To the extent that we renew our minds we obey or sin. The more we renew our minds, the less we will sin.
But...I do not believe we will be perfect until Christ returns for his church , and then we will have glorified bodies like Jesus and be totally free of the sin nature.
Thus Jesus words fulfilled, we will finally be free from sin.
01 May 16
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterFreaky is saved eternally and not even God has the power to take that away from him. Checkbaiter likewise... in fact these Christians have more power than God himself These 'gods' can talk down on the rest of the world. Recently Checkbaiter said to me "And I think you are a fool, and the question was not addressed to you., only because he could not refute the teachings of Christ.
What an endearing commentary you are providing on the nature of what Christ wants from us.
01 May 16
Originally posted by FMFI really can't blame you for your post. Your opinion may rub others the wrong way, but not me. How are Christians supposed to spread the 'good news' of the Gospels when it is unclear who exactly Jesus was/is and who He is not, and the exact meaning of His words? Every Christian on this forum thinks they have the answer to the riddle, but another Christian will immediately come along with Bible scripture to refute that answer. And technically, for such an important matter, there should be no riddle at all.
Seems like a completely bungled "revelation" by what is supposed to be a omnipotent God who reportedly sincerely "desires all humans to be saved", wouldn't you say? It's got 'figment of the human imagination' written all over it.
I am personally not convinced that it's all a fairy tale and man made mumbo jumbo, but I am also not convinced that Christians have a sound understanding, that everyone can agree on.
If I were to knock on a man's door to spread the 'good news', he is likely to tell me that only yesterday a different person told him a completely different story, and last week another person told him yet a different version, and last month a different version, and so on.
There is no real unity at all, in my opinion, regarding the entirety of Christianity and its message.