What Does One Need to Know...

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Correct, our opinions look at what is around us and we either accept or reject this means
that, or it proves this, or it means something else, and disproves that. Which is why I
stated the two reasons I believe the universe is evidence for God, again only nothing
comes from nothing that is all that will ever happen there, and there isn't anything that
can create itself out of nothing.

I also don't believe something can come from nothing.

The evidence, however, doesn't point to 'God' it points to a universe that has always existed, in one form or another.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Correct, our opinions look at what is around us and we either accept or reject this means that, or it proves this, or it means something else, and disproves that. Which is why I stated the two reasons I believe the universe is evidence for God, again only nothing
comes from nothing that is all that will ever happen there, and there isn't anything that can create itself out of nothing.

Your post is full of contradictions KellyJay.

The “evidence” you have for the universe being proof of God’s existence is just your opinion that it is so. Your opinion is NOT evidence. Your perspective is not fact, it is just your perspective.

Do you agree?

Originally posted by @kellyjay

... there are two things I also believe true.
1st you only get nothing from nothing since there isn't anything to change.
2nd there isn't anything that wasn't here before that just created itself by itself.

Your first belief is probably NOT true and there are many plausible scenarios for a universe from nothing.
Your second belief doesn't make sense grammatically so I'm a bit confused.

But if your first belief is true is must apply equally to a Creator.
So if your perceived universe needs a Creator then so does your Creator.
(Like the Romans needing the Titans to create their gods)

Now you can believe what you like .. but trying to make your belief logical is just nonsense.

Originally posted by @wolfgang59
Your first belief is probably NOT true and there are many plausible scenarios for a universe from nothing.
Your second belief doesn't make sense grammatically so I'm a bit confused.

But if your first belief is true is must apply equally to a Creator.
So if your perceived universe needs a Creator then so does your Creator.
(Like the Romans needing ...[text shortened]...

Now you can believe what you like .. but trying to make your belief logical is just nonsense.

Unless you have a different definition of nothing than I do, there is no way! Nothing doesn’t have space, time, energy, or matter it is absent of everything that could give it any definition or form outside of nothing.

Originally posted by @wolfgang59
Your first belief is probably NOT true and there are many plausible scenarios for a universe from nothing.
Your second belief doesn't make sense grammatically so I'm a bit confused.

But if your first belief is true is must apply equally to a Creator.
So if your perceived universe needs a Creator then so does your Creator.
(Like the Romans needing ...[text shortened]...

Now you can believe what you like .. but trying to make your belief logical is just nonsense.

God is eternal there isn’t a start to Him.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Your post is full of contradictions KellyJay.

The “evidence” you have for the universe being proof of God’s existence is just your opinion that it is so. Your opinion is NOT evidence. Your perspective is not fact, it is just your perspective.

Do you agree?

Evidence seems to be something you don’t grasp! We will look at what is around us (evidence) that will be what we single out to attempt to prove our points/opinions by applying our reasons. Our opinions never are the evidence!

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Evidence seems to be something you don’t grasp! We will look at what is around us (evidence) that will be what we single out to attempt to prove our points/opinions by applying our reasons. Our opinions never are the evidence!

I should have added, our opinions are also not facts.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
God is eternal there isn’t a start to Him.

Why?
Using your own argument for the universe needing a creator.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I also don't believe something can come from nothing.

The evidence, however, doesn't point to 'God' it points to a universe that has always existed, in one form or another.

So you say as if you would know the difference! Also you simply moved the something from nothing question away without really answering it.

Originally posted by @wolfgang59
Why?
Using your own argument for the universe needing a creator.

We date the universe, we might disagree on the dates, but agree that it requires one. An eternal God doesn’t.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Your post is full of contradictions KellyJay.

The “evidence” you have for the universe being proof of God’s existence is just your opinion that it is so. Your opinion is NOT evidence. Your perspective is not fact, it is just your perspective.

Do you agree?

So why would people be without excuse Dive? Is it maybe because there is a shortage of evidence?

Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
So you say as if you would know the difference! Also you simply moved the something from nothing question away without really answering it.

No, I didn't. I'm saying there 'never' was a time when there was nothing. There has 'always' been something.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
No, I didn't. I'm saying there 'never' was a time when there was nothing. There has 'always' been something.

This again is a fact or a belief on your part? I believe God always was, is, and will be, is it
He who you are talking about, or the universe itself? If it is the universe itself is that a matter
of faith or fact? If it is the universe can you explain why we date it as we do if it always was?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
This again is a fact or a belief on your part? I believe God always was, is, and will be, is it
He who you are talking about, or the universe itself? If it is the universe itself is that a matter
of faith or fact? If it is the universe can you explain why we date it as we do if it always was?

Even if you don't believe it's true and even if you have a different opinion about what 'evidence' the universe provides, do you accept that the universe is also 'evidence' that can be used by people who think it has probaby existed forever in some form or other to support their opinion?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
This again is a fact or a belief on your part? I believe God always was, is, and will be, is it
He who you are talking about, or the universe itself? If it is the universe itself is that a matter
of faith or fact? If it is the universe can you explain why we date it as we do if it always was?

So it isn't a fact that the universe was created by the God you worship and it isn't a fact that it has existed forever, have I understood your take on what "facts" are in this case?