What is this man lacking?

@divegeester said
How do you manage to pay for you internet access and on what device do you access this website? Furthermore what are you doing spending your time here at rhp?

I am of course assuming you have sold everything you have, given it to the poor and are off following Jesus. 🙂

Im not perfect but I am striving in that direction. If we look at the Matt record we see :

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
(Matthew 19:21 KJV)

Following the law is good, faith in God is good, but if someone wants to aim for perfection it can be found in more giving up on the worlds goods and giving to the poor. This means that good works in the form of charity is the key to perfection.

Perfection does not come from more
- prayers
- bible study
- preaching
- miracles
- casting out devils
- attending church
- financing to the pastor's 3rd house

etc

@bigdoggproblem said
Well, if you want to go there, then what does it matter what any of us say, really.

A very excellent point.

I think I have seen Dive write before, though, that there is something honest about doing it yourself. I am not sure. I can understand that: there is a difference between someone's creative, individual take on a thing and the words from a book that everybody knows about that state the opinion.

But the fact of the matter is that St. John Chrysostom or Einstein or Plato or Martin Luther are very important figures in their fields, and when people want to read good opinions on a topic, opinions that have inspired other great men, that is who they go to.

I consider citing the leading experts, philosophers, theologians, etc. as vital to having a good conversation.

Other people, not so much.

@rajk999 said
Im not perfect but I am striving in that direction. If we look at the Matt record we see :

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
(Matthew 19:21 KJV)

Following the law is good, faith in God is good, but if someone wants to aim for per ...[text shortened]...
- miracles
- casting out devils
- attending church
- financing to the pastor's 3rd house

etc

You just stated that casting out devils and performing miracles is second to charity? Quite a take.

What's your basis for that?

@philokalia said
I consider citing the leading experts, philosophers, theologians, etc. as vital to having a good conversation.

It's not a "good conversation" when that's all you seem to have.

Regurgitation of rote-learned dogma + Appeal to Authority.

Duckspeak + name dropping.

Ideology-I-can't-explain + so-and-so agrees with me.

It's lightweight in an arena where people of different beliefs are just trying to have conversations.

It explains why you so often run away from questions and comments that loom up out of attempts to have a "good conversation" when you don't have an Appeal to Authority readily available. You vanish. Or you stop using the "Quote" button so that you can sidestep what's been contended or asked.

I tried to talk to you about "evil", and off you ran to start a preach-to-the-choir thread citing an "expert" on "evil" called Saint So-and-So or Somewhere. It's just conversation killing abdication. If you can't discuss "evil" on your own bat, don't bother trying.

Having said that, you should post as you see fit. If Appeal to Authority and spammy copy-pastes is your go-to message board thing, good for you.

@philokalia said
You just stated that casting out devils and performing miracles is second to charity? Quite a take.

What's your basis for that?

Jesus said so. Paul said so.
Have you ever read 1 Cor 13..
Its all about charity and how it is greater than faith.

You really need to stop listening to a bunch of morons in the church and start reading the bible for yourself.

@rajk999 said
Im not perfect but I am striving in that direction. If we look at the Matt record we see :

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
(Matthew 19:21 KJV)

Following the law is good, faith in God is good, but if someone wants to aim for per ...[text shortened]...
- miracles
- casting out devils
- attending church
- financing to the pastor's 3rd house

etc

What is perfection, what is God trying to do with people if God has His way as you see it?

@kellyjay said
What is perfection, what is God trying to do with people if God has His way as you see it?

Did I not just quote a passage where Jesus said .. .. If thou wilt be perfect, go and .. do certain things? Read it.

@rajk999 said
Jesus said so. Paul said so.
Have you ever read 1 Cor 13..
Its all about charity and how it is greater than faith.

You really need to stop listening to a bunch of morons in the church and start reading the bible for yourself.

There is an interesting difference in translations between the KJV and ESV in this regards.

In the KJV, they render the word "charity," and in the ESV, they render it as "love."

Regardless, it is clear that they are speaking about something like charity as a very abstract concept that goes beyond even the realm of works.

3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

In fact, you could even look at the emboldened text and talk about how charity must be a spiritual and faith-oriented shift within the self, and that it is absolutely not about a series of deeds and works.

This would go back perhaps to the idea that our righteousness -- our perceived righteousness -- is like filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).

@philokalia said
There is an interesting difference in translations between the KJV and ESV in this regards.

In the KJV, they render the word "charity," and in the ESV, they render it as "love."

Regardless, it is clear that they are speaking about something like charity as a very abstract concept that goes beyond even the realm of works.

[quote][b]3And though I bestow all ...[text shortened]... the idea that our righteousness -- our perceived righteousness -- is like filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).

Ok.

@rajk999 said
Did I not just quote a passage where Jesus said .. .. If thou wilt be perfect, go and .. do certain things? Read it.

I don't think you understood my question. If you did it is sad, I asked what is God doing with us, what is His goal? You reply God tells us to be perfect. That isn't God doing anything, that is God telling us we must perfect ourselves.

@kellyjay said
I don't think you understood my question. If you did it is sad, I asked what is God doing with us, what is His goal? You reply God tells us to be perfect. That isn't God doing anything, that is God telling us we must perfect ourselves.

Exactly

@rajk999 said
Exactly

God is doing nothing only telling us what to do? You seem to be ignoring a large amount of scripture saying otherwise

@kellyjay said
God is doing nothing only telling us what to do? You seem to be ignoring a large amount of scripture saying otherwise

Ok.

@fmf said
By the way, Ellen G. White was an "expert" on the age of the Earth and was a prominent and respected figure in her church.

Sounds almost as important as that Bishop Ussher guy.

@rajk999 said
Ok.

So this is why you are pushing on earning your way into heaven, its because the god you serve demands perfection, and does nothing to help you, just demands you become perfect?