18 Aug 19
2 edits
@fmf saidI haven't run away from anything here or in recent memory.
It's not a "good conversation" when that's all you seem to have.
Regurgitation of rote-learned dogma + Appeal to Authority.
Duckspeak + name dropping.
Ideology-I-can't-explain + so-and-so agrees with me.
It's lightweight in an arena where people of different beliefs are just trying to have conversations.
It explains why you so often run away from questions and com ...[text shortened]... fit. If Appeal to Authority and spammy copy-pastes is your go-to message board thing, good for you.
I recollect trying to discuss a topic again but you refused to have it brought back up.
Name the topic and what you want me to discuss and I'd gladly do it here in text or over a VOIP service with nowhere to run and hide for an hour of questions and chat.
Whatever you want, FMF. I'm not running.
😛
18 Aug 19
@philokalia saidEver come across a guy who every 5 sentences says:
I haven't run away from anything here or in recent memory.
I recollect trying to discuss a topic again but you refused to have it brought back up.
Name the topic and what you want me to discuss and I'd gladly do it here in text or over a VOIP service with nowhere to run and hide for an hour of questions and chat.
Whatever you want, FMF. I'm not running.
😛
- my wife says ..
- my wife thinks that ...
- she believers that ..
Its going to be a very short conversation if the guy has no opinion of his own.
Got it?
18 Aug 19
@rajk999 saidIf the man's wife is wiser than he and in fact she is wiser than me, why shouldn't I respect the man and cling to every word that his wife has told him?
Ever come across a guy who every 5 sentences says:
- my wife says ..
- my wife thinks that ...
- she believers that ..
Its going to be a very short conversation if the guy has no opinion of his own.
Got it?
.... But sure, I get the point.
My name itself is a reference to the great fathers of the church.
I try to read them and understand them because a great system was already created that I can't improve upon.
18 Aug 19
@philokalia saidIf the mans wife is wiser than him then I rather have a conversation with his wife.
If the man's wife is wiser than he and in fact she is wiser than me, why shouldn't I respect the man and cling to every word that his wife has told him?
.... But sure, I get the point.
My name itself is a reference to the great fathers of the church.
I try to read them and understand them because a great system was already created that I can't improve upon.
There is an authority greater than church fathers... Jesus Christ.
Read, understand and obey Jesus Christ.
Nothing more is required.
Your church fathers are fallible men.
Events in the last couple decades should drive that home in your head.
@rajk999 saidRead, understand and obey Jesus Christ.
If the mans wife is wiser than him then I rather have a conversation with his wife.
There is an authority greater than church fathers... Jesus Christ.
Read, understand and obey Jesus Christ.
Nothing more is required.
Your church fathers are fallible men.
Events in the last couple decades should drive that home in your head.
Nothing more is required.
Your church fathers are fallible men.
It takes effort to understand the words of Jesus.
The simplistic words of the church fathers much less so.
Why go to all that bother?
Mark 4
24And He was saying to them, “Take care what you listen to. By your standard of measure it will be measured to you; and more will be given you besides. 25“For whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.”
John 6
63...the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
18 Aug 19
@rajk999 saidThe man did not have faith. He had "great possessions", which he was unwilling to part with and follow Jesus.
According to Jesus Christ, there is a man believed in God and who followed the Law of Moses, and Jesus still tells the man that he is lacking something.
[i]And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there ...[text shortened]... This doctrine was repeated over and over by Christ throughout His ministry.
Any other opinions?
Notice in the passage that Jesus referenced only the second table of the law when addressing the question the man asked. The man said that he had religiously obeyed those commandments, but when it came to obeying the first commandment and worshipping God with all his heart, soul, mind and strength he was unable, because of his possessions, to put God first.
That scenario plays itself out with regards to your insistence that it is by keeping the law and doing good works that saves; but in fact the reality is that God requires faith and a sold out heart, evidenced by a humble, broken and contrite spirit to accomplish the work of salvation for the believer, accomplished by His Son on the cross.
@thinkofone saidI think people understand Christ. They rather not follow and keep the commandments of Christ. They instead fabricate another doctrine based on cherry picking Paul. If Paul is taken in its entirety good works becomes necessary and required for eternal life.
Read, understand and obey Jesus Christ.
Nothing more is required.
Your church fathers are fallible men.
It takes effort to understand the words of Jesus.
The simplistic words of the church fathers much less so.
Why go to all that bother?
Mark 4
24And He was saying to them, “Take care what you listen to. By your standard of measure it will be measured t ...[text shortened]... taken away from him.”
John 6
63...the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
18 Aug 19
@secondson saidA prominent Jew, following the Law of Moses, and he does not have faith? Did the man not believe in God? This is the reason why I dont go to church. It is full of idiots like you.
The man did not have faith. He had "great possessions", which he was unwilling to part with and follow Jesus.
Notice in the passage that Jesus referenced only the second table of the law when addressing the question the man asked. The man said that he had religiously obeyed those commandments, but when it came to obeying the first commandment and worshipping God with all ...[text shortened]... e spirit to accomplish the work of salvation for the believer, accomplished by His Son on the cross.
18 Aug 19
@rajk999 saidThat's not even the half of it. They hear what they want to hear. They hear Him say what He doesn't say. They don't hear what He does say.
I think people understand Christ. They rather not follow and keep the commandments of Christ. They instead fabricate another doctrine based on cherry picking Paul. If Paul is taken in its entirety good works becomes necessary and required for eternal life.
For example, they hear Him claim to be God Himself.
They neither hear nor understand.
18 Aug 19
The goal is to follow Jesus Christ, right? I also recognize that, but I recognize something that is vital to following Christ:
I understand that every single word that we have of Christ's and all of the recordings of his actions were preserved by the Church and were not committed to a full, formal text assembled all together until later. I also understand that St. Paul is a pivotal and key figure of this Church.
How do you know how to interpret Christ, and how do you know how to understand Christ, without the Church? The church is not infallible, and areas for debate still remain, but how do you think it is the case that, say, 90% of St. Paul's stuff is apparently wrong by the standards you present?
It's absurd to rely on the text of the Church... but only some of the text, and nothing else, and to believe that you have some insights into the Christian way of life that were not understood by people during the first 600 years of Christianity, let alone during the last 2,000 years of Christianity.
19 Aug 19
@philokalia saidTell yourself whatever you want.
I haven't run away from anything here or in recent memory.
The blanked out comments - stretching back months - are still there waiting for you.
Post as you see fit.
19 Aug 19
@fmf saidI'm sick of this empty accusation.
Tell yourself whatever you want.
The blanked out comments - stretching back months - are still there waiting for you.
Post as you see fit.
Tell me what you want me to cover and that I've run away from, or let's even have a voice to voice debate and put it up on a video or audio platform and let the forum hear us speak about the topic.
I'm completely open to ANYTHING.
Now you're the one who has run away from me when I say these things twice now.
Put up or shut up, bruh.
@philokalia saidYou obviously took flight quite deliberately each time. So it is what it is. Repeatedly so. You are what you post. So am I. I'm not going to retype stuff. If you ever find yourself looking back at old threads and you see how you suddenly switched away from the topic and focused instead on my posting style or my age or my nationality or pompous declarations about 'good faith' and 'depth' etc. etc. then they are likely to be instances where I had said something you felt the need to ignore and run away from. You should, of course, as always, post as you see fit.
Tell me what you want me to cover and that I've run away from, or let's even have a voice to voice debate and put it up on a video or audio platform and let the forum hear us speak about the topic.
19 Aug 19
@philokalia saidA "video or audio platform"?
let's even have a voice to voice debate and put it up on a video or audio platform and let the forum hear us speak about the topic.
What on Earth are you on about?
19 Aug 19
@rajk999 saidThe faith he had was in his works, and not the faith to part with his possessions and follow Jesus.
A prominent Jew, following the Law of Moses, and he does not have faith? Did the man not believe in God? This is the reason why I dont go to church. It is full of idiots like you.
The passage is clear about that, and you know it. I'm right and you're wrong. You lost the debate you started, and that's why, as usual, you resort to name calling, again.