What would you give up?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you do realise that once you are in hole its advisable to stop digging. If vile
insinuations and backtracking and assertions which have no foundation in reality or
in practice is all you have then carry on, there may be a job at the News of the
world, errr i mean the Sun newspaper for you. Impressive recruitment stats, you
really have no id ...[text shortened]...
a partial understanding and a limited perspective, what did you think was going to
happen?

hehe, you do make me chuckle. are you refusing to admit that there is no possibility that there could be any corruption or bad behavior by the heads of a j.w. hall.

im not backtracking robbie, im just doing the right thing and admitting i dont know the correct way to word what happened. but if you need to jump on this and cling to it, hoping that it will make the rest of the story fall apart, then go for it. all it does is expose how you will desperately try and focus on anything that might actually avoid you tackling the subject head on.

im happy to admit i dont know all the gory details. i dont know the rules of your church. i do know what my mothers friend was told to do was wrong. thats the only claim ive made, its hardly a tabloid headline is it? its not like ive accused the whole of the j.w. church. im happy to accept it could be an isolated incident, hence my interest in glavestons non response to fmf. but your instant attitude of 'it couldnt of happened' seems odd and puts you in an awkward.


would you have acted like this if id been talking about a catholic church? i bet you would be happy to talk about dodgy practices happening in their church.

not that you care, because in your mind she's either made-up or a liar. but it was the protestant church that she belonged to before the j.w's that came to her in her and helped her through her depression. she actually ended up becoming a nun.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
hehe, you do make me chuckle. are you refusing to admit that there is no possibility that there could be any corruption or bad behavior by the heads of a j.w. hall.

im not backtracking robbie, im just doing the right thing and admitting i dont know the correct way to word what happened. but if you need to jump on this and cling to it, hoping that it ...[text shortened]... e to her in her and helped her through her depression. she actually ended up becoming a nun.

tragic

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
tragic

are you refusing to admit that there is a possibility that there could be any corruption or bad behavior by the heads of a j.w. hall?

are you refusing to admit that their is a chance, the heads of a jw hall could ask or do things that contrary to j.w. teachings?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
are you refusing to admit that there is a possibility that there could be any corruption or bad behavior by the heads of a j.w. hall?

are you refusing to admit that their is a chance, the heads of a jw hall could ask or do things that contrary to j.w. teachings?

yes i am denying all accusations.

there is no way she would have been asked to do anything contrary to the teachings of Jehovahs witnesses, no way!

and if any persons are found to be corrupt they are removed, definitely from their position of responsibility and possibly from the congregation depending on the seriousness of the charge.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes i am denying all accusations.

there is no way she would have been asked to do anything contrary to the teachings of Jehovahs witnesses, no way!

and if any persons are found to be corrupt they are removed, definitely from their position of responsibility and possibly from the congregation depending on the seriousness of the charge.

im confused first you say there is no way, then you say if there was they would be removed. which is it?

are you saying it is impossible that the heads of a j.w. church (any church, not just the situation i outlined) could ask people to do things that go against the principles of the church?

the weird thing is, you havent even asked me what they asked her to do. almost like it doesnt matter. just deny anything just in case.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes i am denying all accusations.

there is no way she would have been asked to do anything contrary to the teachings of Jehovahs witnesses, no way!

and if any persons are found to be corrupt they are removed, definitely from their position of responsibility and possibly from the congregation depending on the seriousness of the charge.

How many people have been disfellowshipped from your congregation since you've been there? Roughly.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
How many people have been disfellowshipped from your congregation since you've been there? Roughly.

two persons disassociated themselves (stated they no longer wish to be Jehovahs
witnesses) and one person was disfellowshiped and then reinstated after a time.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
im confused first you say there is no way, then you say if there was they would be removed. which is it?

are you saying it is impossible that the heads of a j.w. church (any church, not just the situation i outlined) could ask people to do things that go against the principles of the church?

the weird thing is, you havent even asked me what they asked her to do. almost like it doesnt matter. just deny anything just in case.

yes i am saying exactly that. I have not asked you because its frankly none of my
business and as i do not know any of the details its useless to form any kind of opinion
except a biased one. If a person has committed wrongdoing, it will be addressed, you
can bet your bottom dollar on that whether they are in a position of responsibility or not.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes i am saying exactly that. I have not asked you because its frankly none of my
business and as i do not know any of the details its useless to form any kind of opinion
except a biased one. If a person has committed wrongdoing, it will be addressed, you
can bet your bottom dollar on that whether they are in a position of responsibility or not.

"yes i am saying exactly that"

which line of text are you referring to? i presume its that there is no chance a head of a hall would ask a member to do something that goes against jw laws.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
"yes i am saying exactly that"

which line of text are you referring to? i presume its that there is no chance a head of a hall would ask a member to do something that goes against jw laws.

indeed, for if they did, the matter would become known and they would be removed,
pronto! Of course stuff happens, but we do not tolerate it, its not like the elder will be
shipped off to serve elsewhere, he will be removed from his position of responsibility.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
oh its true robbie. we went through the whole ordeal with her. she wasnt kicked out in any official sense but she was made to feel very unwelcome, ostracized you might say. the funny/sad thing about the story is - the recruitment methods she was unhappy with were methods used to recruit her. as you know religious people do not always behave in a religio ...[text shortened]... , is the bible going to give me an insight into how the westboro baptist church run their flock.

That is still not accurate on any level. I have known many including both my children that were disfellowshipped and I never knew of anyone or have ever heard of anyone that was disfellowshipped as being treated rudely or unkind on any level...ever from the congregation.
If anyone has felt they were treated wrong it is either because maybe the person they may have committed the "gross sin" against may have been hurt on some level and that person may have had a hard time forgiving that person which is possible because we are all imperfect and may not forgive as freely as they should, or the person that was disfellowshipped did not understand or accept the correction from the Bible which is from God himself.
Unfortunently some do not take cancel in a humble way because of pride or other reasons.
There are two basic reasons for one to be disfellowshipped.
The first is to keep the congregation clean of that persons influance. If that person is not removed then obviously they would still be involved in the congregation and the influance of their bad actions would be felt and imposed on many.
The second reason for disfellowshipping is to hopefully make that person see and understand the seriousness of the sin they committed and did not show any honest sorrow for. It is to help that person understand that those actions cannot be allowed to happen for the congregations safety and the spiritual health and their standing with God.

So NO, no one would ever be treated in any kind of a cruel way or as an outcast, EVER.
When one is eventually reinstated is is a very happy and loving thing to see the congregations reaction. They have gained their brother or sister back into the family of the congregation.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
indeed, for if they did, the matter would become known and they would be removed,
pronto! Of course stuff happens, but we do not tolerate it, its not like the elder will be
shipped off to serve elsewhere, he will be removed from his position of responsibility.

why wasnt fredrick mclean removed 'pronto'. in fact it ended up costing your organisation a lot of money because they didnt remove him 'pronto'.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
why wasnt fredrick mclean removed 'pronto'. in fact it ended up costing your organisation a lot of money because they didnt remove him 'pronto'.

have you read the courtroom transcripts, no, then may I ask you to do so, prior to
arguing in a debate otherwise you will merely be displaying another uninformed
perspective AGAIN. Do you always form opinions prior to assimilating the details? how
are you ever able to put the constituent parts together to form a whole and complete
picture? will your position not always reflect a distorted view until you do?

Originally posted by galveston75
That is still not accurate on any level. I have known many including both my children that were disfellowshipped and I never knew of anyone or have ever heard of anyone that was disfellowshipped as being treated rudely or unkind on any level...ever from the congregation.
If anyone has felt they were treated wrong it is either because maybe the person ...[text shortened]... s reaction. They have gained their brother or sister back into the family of the congregation.

not accurate? whats not accurate? you are presuming a lot. i never said she was disciplined in any j.w. official sense. i am aware my use of the phrase 'kicked-out' could be taken wrong.

your claims that nobody is ever treated rudely or unkind on any level show how deluded you are when it comes to your church. there is unkindness in all walks of life, churches are not immune to nasty behavior. im sure the children in the child abuse claims ive just highlighted to robbie will feel like they were treated badly by the elder. my claims that the lady was ostracized for arguing with elder decisions doesnt seem so implausible when compared to children being molested in your church. or are you saying that the chances of being molested are higher than an elder getting members to knock on specific doors to increase the flock.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
have you read the courtroom transcripts, no, then may I ask you to do so, prior to
arguing in a debate otherwise you will merely be displaying another uninformed
perspective AGAIN. Do you always form opinions prior to assimilating the details? how
are you ever able to put the constituent parts together to form a whole and complete
picture? will your position not always reflect a distorted view until you do?

and do you know what went on at my mothers friends hall. or are you just saying what should happen and then guessing thats what did happen and anything else must be a lie?? looks like you are speculating with out knowing the facts. so before you start bitching about other people having the complete picture you may do well to heed your own advice.