what's your thought on this

Originally posted by josephw
Sure I do, but you keep adding terminology. Which is a form of obfuscating.

Its certainly not intentional. I have no desire to obfuscate anything as I genuinely believe what I am saying and if I am wrong, I genuinely want to know.

You see? I never said "instrumentation". I said methodology. The method is to test a theory. For example: The theory is that there is a God. The method of scientific inquiry is observation. The information is the universe. Upon observation of the universe it is reasonable to conclude that it had an origin.
How so you say? Because it exists.
And I would counter that:
1. It is not reasonable to conclude that it had an origin.
2. Even if it had an origin, that does not tell us anything useful with regards to the existence of God.

Ok. How about this? A guy named Jesus who claimed to be the son of God is crucified and buried. Three days later He is raised from the dead.
What about it? How is it relevant to the discussion at all? What does it have to do with your claim to have received revelation?

Then what is all that exists evidence for?
Not very much. It certainly isn't evidence for the existence of God.

Here's a revelation for you to apply scientific scrutiny to.

Your mind is not made of anything material as everyone has been taught to believe. You think you think with your brain. The brain isn't thinking at all. It is your mind(spirit) that thinks.
OK, lets do as you say and apply scientific scrutiny to that.
If we modify the physical brain, should your thinking be changed? If you are for example injected with depressants, which are clearly chemicals that affect only the physical brain, why do you start thinking depressed thoughts?
What about hallucinatory drugs?
Please explain to me how this all fits together, as I fail to see how your separate intellect could work.

Also, you mention that the physical brain stores information. So all your memories are in your physical brain? So why you die, you loose all memory of your life? I am just trying to clarify what your 'revelation' entails.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Its certainly not intentional. I have no desire to obfuscate anything as I genuinely believe what I am saying and if I am wrong, I genuinely want to know.

[b]You see? I never said "instrumentation". I said methodology. The method is to test a theory. For example: The theory is that there is a God. The method of scientific inquiry is observation. The in ...[text shortened]... oose all memory of your life? I am just trying to clarify what your 'revelation' entails.

Its certainly not intentional. I have no desire to obfuscate anything as I genuinely believe what I am saying and if I am wrong, I genuinely want to know.

I know you would not intentionally obfuscate. I know you are honest from all these years of reading your posts. I did not mean to suggest that you would.


I said: Ok. How about this? A guy named Jesus who claimed to be the son of God is crucified and buried. Three days later He is raised from the dead.
You replied: What about it? How is it relevant to the discussion at all? What does it have to do with your claim to have received revelation?

I think what I was trying to say was that the method of scientific observation could be applied to the resurrection. A lot of people saw Jesus die, and a lot of people saw Him alive after He was buried.


OK, lets do as you say and apply scientific scrutiny to that.
If we modify the physical brain, should your thinking be changed? If you are for example injected with depressants, which are clearly chemicals that affect only the physical brain, why do you start thinking depressed thoughts?
What about hallucinatory drugs?
Please explain to me how this all fits together, as I fail to see how your separate intellect could work.

Also, you mention that the physical brain stores information. So all your memories are in your physical brain? So why you die, you loose all memory of your life? I am just trying to clarify what your 'revelation' entails.

Let me see if I can give you a satisfactory answer.

I say, and have said, and make the claim that we think with our spirit and not our brain. A fairly hefty thing to say without any proof. Sounds as wacky as anything wacky being posted around here.

The only way to prove it is through reason. But before I go into that let me first answer the questions about modifying the brain. Our body, soul, and spirit are so closely intertwined that any modification to any one part has a corresponding effect on the rest. This stands to reason, assuming we are tripart beings. But what the heck do I know? It's way too complicated. Nobody can explain it. We don't have enough knowledge about the brain as it is.

It's even way too complicated to explain what the Bible has to say about it, but this is the fundamentals of what the Bible says about our makeup.

The body: Gives us world consciousness.

The soul: The seat of our will and our identity. Emotions(self consciousness)

The spirit: Gives us God consciousness. Thought.


Now about proof through reason. There are many different avenues from which to approach this, but I will go with what I have. Secularism has it that we are simply biological organisms that eventually die and turn to dust. You and I will cease to exists after death they say. They also say that since our brains are made up of just so many brain cells we are merely finite creatures with only a finite capacity for thought. In other words one can only think so many thoughts and that's it.
If that is the case, then we will never really know very much. We can only count so high then it ends even though we know there are higher numbers. Goofy isn't it?
But let's say we don't think with our brain but with the spirit. All of a sudden there's no limit to our capacity to think. There's no end to what we can think of. And isn't that just what we have?

But of course there's evolution. As the ages go by our brains just keep getting bigger and bigger so we can store all that added information. Eventually our brains will be so big they will be like planets floating around in space. But then again we won't need to evolve bigger brains because we'll build computers to store all the information for us. Then the computer will tell us what we need to know and do. We won't even need to think. Our brains will actually get smaller and our bodies will get bigger. We won't even need a brain. We'll have computers that will think for us that we'll carry on our shoulders that looks like a head but really isn't, but it will look like a head. We can design our own head type too. Or the computer can. Personally I'd go with a real human head, but that might not be possible since I wouldn't know what a human head looked like.

You know, we just need to reason these things through. 😉

Originally posted by twhitehead
Its certainly not intentional. I have no desire to obfuscate anything as I genuinely believe what I am saying and if I am wrong, I genuinely want to know.

[b]You see? I never said "instrumentation". I said methodology. The method is to test a theory. For example: The theory is that there is a God. The method of scientific inquiry is observation. The in oose all memory of your life? I am just trying to clarify what your 'revelation' entails.

Its certainly not intentional. I have no desire to obfuscate anything as I genuinely believe what I am saying and if I am wrong, I genuinely want to know.

I know you would not intentionally obfuscate. I know you are honest from all these years of reading your posts. I did not mean to suggest that you would.


I said: Ok. How about this? A guy named Jesus who claimed to be the son of God is crucified and buried. Three days later He is raised from the dead.
You replied: What about it? How is it relevant to the discussion at all? What does it have to do with your claim to have received revelation?

I think what I was trying to say was that the method of scientific observation could be applied to the resurrection. A lot of people saw Jesus die, and a lot of people saw Him alive after He was buried.


OK, lets do as you say and apply scientific scrutiny to that.
If we modify the physical brain, should your thinking be changed? If you are for example injected with depressants, which are clearly chemicals that affect only the physical brain, why do you start thinking depressed thoughts?
What about hallucinatory drugs?
Please explain to me how this all fits together, as I fail to see how your separate intellect could work.

Also, you mention that the physical brain stores information. So all your memories are in your physical brain? So why you die, you loose all memory of your life? I am just trying to clarify what your 'revelation' entails.

Let me see if I can give you a satisfactory answer.

I say, and have said, and make the claim that we think with our spirit and not our brain. A fairly hefty thing to say without any proof. Sounds as wacky as anything wacky being posted around here.

The only way to prove it is through reason. But before I go into that let me first answer the questions about modifying the brain. Our body, soul, and spirit are so closely intertwined that any modification to any one part has a corresponding effect on the rest. This stands to reason, assuming we are tripart beings. But what the heck do I know? It's way too complicated. Nobody can explain it. We don't have enough knowledge about the brain as it is.

It's even way too complicated to explain what the Bible has to say about it, but this is the fundamentals of what the Bible says about our makeup.

The body: Gives us world consciousness.

The soul: The seat of our will and our identity. Emotions(self consciousness)

The spirit: Gives us God consciousness. Thought.


Now about proof through reason. There are many different avenues from which to approach this, but I will go with what I have. Secularism has it that we are simply biological organisms that eventually die and turn to dust. You and I will cease to exists after death they say. They also say that since our brains are made up of just so many brain cells we are merely finite creatures with only a finite capacity for thought. In other words one can only think so many thoughts and that's it.
If that is the case, then we will never really know very much. We can only count so high then it ends even though we know there are higher numbers. Goofy isn't it?
But let's say we don't think with our brain but with the spirit. All of a sudden there's no limit to our capacity to think. There's no end to what we can think of. And isn't that just what we have?

But of course there's evolution. As the ages go by our brains just keep getting bigger and bigger so we can store all that added information. Eventually our brains will be so big they will be like planets floating around in space. But then again we won't need to evolve bigger brains because we'll build computers to store all the information for us. Then the computer will tell us what we need to know and do. We won't even need to think. Our brains will actually get smaller and our bodies will get bigger. We won't even need a brain. We'll have computers that will think for us that we'll carry on our shoulders that looks like a head but really isn't, but it will look like a head. We can design our own head type too. Or the computer can. Personally I'd go with a real human head, but that might not be possible since I wouldn't know what a human head looked like.

You know, we just need to reason these things through. 😉

Originally posted by vishvahetu
to TwhiteHead

Yes, the parents are a type of child abuser, because they dont know any better, and they pass on their erroneous beliefs to their children, and thats how we end up with a world of ignorant people, and thats why the world is so troubled.

vishva

Now I get you.
I call that unintentional lying, not child abuse.

Originally posted by josephw
I think what I was trying to say was that the method of scientific observation could be applied to the resurrection. A lot of people saw Jesus die, and a lot of people saw Him alive after He was buried.

And I fully agree. We can and should use scientific principles (and common sense) when determining whether the accounts are reliable. I don't think you would like the results.

But what the heck do I know? It's way too complicated. Nobody can explain it.
So you cant explain it, but believe it anyway.

We don't have enough knowledge about the brain as it is.
Speak for yourself. I think I am reasonably knowledgeable about the brain, and I believe a scientist that has studied the brain is even more so.

It's even way too complicated to explain what the Bible has to say about it, but this is the fundamentals of what the Bible says about our makeup.
The body: Gives us world consciousness.
The soul: The seat of our will and our identity. Emotions(self consciousness)
The spirit: Gives us God consciousness. Thought.
Conveniently vague and undefined phrases.
It remains a fact that our emotions and thoughts are directly affected by physical changes to the brain.

Now about proof through reason.
...
But let's say we don't think with our brain but with the spirit. All of a sudden there's no limit to our capacity to think. There's no end to what we can think of. And isn't that just what we have?
No. I am yet to meet anyone with unlimited capacity to think. If you mean we can finitely think of just about anything, a restriction on that does not follow from your argument. If you are claiming we can have infinite thoughts then you must back it up with some sort of evidence, or reasoning.

But of course there's evolution. As the ages go by our brains just keep getting bigger and bigger so we can store all that added information.
Only if we start special breeding programs.

Our brains will actually get smaller and our bodies will get bigger.
Why will our bodies get bigger? I guess its possible but at least provide some reasoning (such as a reason why it would increase life expectancy).

We won't even need a brain. We'll have computers that will think for us that we'll carry on our shoulders that looks like a head but really isn't, but it will look like a head.
Far more likely the computers will figure out they don't need us and get rid of us.

You know, we just need to reason these things through. 😉
Well you are not doing very well so far. What were you trying to show with your reasoning? That you think with your spirit or soul? All you seem to have come up with is that you haven't got a clue how it works.

Originally posted by twhitehead
And I fully agree. We can and should use scientific principles (and common sense) when determining whether the accounts are reliable. I don't think you would like the results.

[b]But what the heck do I know? It's way too complicated. Nobody can explain it.
So you cant explain it, but believe it anyway.

We don't have enough knowledge about th ? All you seem to have come up with is that you haven't got a clue how it works.

And I fully agree. We can and should use scientific principles (and common sense) when determining whether the accounts are reliable. I don't think you would like the results.

I like the results. Jesus lives.


So you cant explain it, but believe it anyway.

I believe a lot of things I can't explain. Do we need to be able to explain something in order for us to believe it? I don't think so.


Speak for yourself. I think I am reasonably knowledgeable about the brain, and I believe a scientist that has studied the brain is even more so.

We know very little about the brain. Any one who knows anything about the brain will attest to that.


Conveniently vague and undefined phrases.

Not vague, just simplified. The whole topic about how we are made and how we function would fill this forum to over flowing.


It remains a fact that our emotions and thoughts are directly affected by physical changes to the brain.

That's what I said.


No. I am yet to meet anyone with unlimited capacity to think.

You haven't met God yet.


If you mean we can finitely think of just about anything, a restriction on that does not follow from your argument. If you are claiming we can have infinite thoughts then you must back it up with some sort of evidence, or reasoning.

Is there anything you can't think of? I have as yet to discover something I can't think of. And what's more, I'll be doing it forever.


Only if we start special breeding programs.

Like the ones' we have now? Ever hear about gene pools?


Far more likely the computers will figure out they don't need us and get rid of us.

No. We have a God that'll take care of that! I'm not sure I should have said that. But it sounds funny to me.


What were you trying to show with your reasoning?

The last section of my post was just for fun.


Look, if you want a reason to believe, just reason it out.

Nothing that is is for no reason, therefore all that exists exists for a reason. If all that exists exists for no reason, then there is surely no creator. Reason exists for a reason. Reason shouts "alleluia, praise to the Almighty creator God for giving me the capacity to reason".


I can't figure out why my bracketing isn't working.