Who is a Christian?

Originally posted by whodey
Now let's see, Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I am", and they took up stones to kill him.

What made him say that if he were not claiming to be God in the flesh?

The text is a reference to Christs pre human existence. There is not a shred of evidence that in utilising it he makes a claim to be God. Furthermore you are using an argument from ignorance, that is, what is not stated rather than what is.

Originally posted by leunammi
Jesus is the Word!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1 KJV

Jesus is God with us!
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Matthew 1:23 KJV

[i]Jesus is the image of the invisibl ...[text shortened]...
Revelation 22:13 KJV

Jesus is fully man and fully God.

I hope you have a good Christmas!

Nowhere does Jesus actually claim to be God in any of the texts that you have cited.

John 1:1 the term, The Word was God is a mistranslation which ignores both the original Greek idiom and standard English grammatical structure. Why is the the case? Because the term for which your translators have translated God as and 'The Word was God', is a predicate noun. The Greek actually reads, 'theos en ho logos' and you will note that there is no definite article before theos making it a predicate noun, that is a quality about The Word. Also when we use a predicate noun in Englsih we preced it was an article, we do not say, John was doctor, we say John was a doctor. Furthermore the very same chapter, John 1:18 states that no man has seen God at any time, making your insistence that Christ is God rather ludicrous, for many people beheld Christ, not easy for you to reconcile, is it.

That Immanuel means God is with us does not mean that it makes the person it refers to God himself, does it? For example Elsiha means, God is salvation. If we carry your logic forward then the prophet Elisha must also be God and we can see the rather desperate clutching at straws to support an extra biblical doctrine.

Being the image of the invisible God does not make one God himself, does it.

Revelation is also open to interpretation as to whether it refers to Christ or to the Almighty, but lets see what other Bible writers understood of Jesus.

Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. - Philippians 2:5.6

You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am - John 14:28

Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” John 20:17

But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God. - 1 Corinthians 11:3

But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.- 1 Corinthians 15:28

Some rather inconvenient verses for those who claim that Christ is God

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Nowhere does Jesus actually claim to be God in any of the texts that you have cited.

John 1:1 the term, The Word was God is a mistranslation which ignores both the original Greek idiom and standard English grammatical structure. Why is the the case? Because the term for which your translators have translated God as and 'The Word was God', is a pr ...[text shortened]... .- 1 Corinthians 15:28

Some rather inconvenient verses for those who claim that Christ is God

Please, stop trying to cram your JW nonsense down our throats.

Originally posted by chaney3
Wrong.
Jesus never said that He was God.
Flimsy interpretation has done that.

Stop asking the question, then, if you refuse to accept the answers.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The text is a reference to Christs pre human existence. There is not a shred of evidence that in utilising it he makes a claim to be God. Furthermore you are using an argument from ignorance, that is, what is not stated rather than what is.

Who is "I am"?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Please, stop trying to cram your JW nonsense down our throats.

I am allowed to express my spiritual perspective here as much as anyone else regardless of your religious bigotry and the idea that I am forcing anything on anyone is as empty as your rather contentless text. You have no jurisdiction here to tell anyone to do anything. Perhaps if you stopped squawking like a crow and made an effort you might do better.

Originally posted by Eladar
Who is "I am"?

Who is 'I am' doesn't make any senses in English? Are you in your senses? 'Who was that at the door?', makes sense but who is 'I am' is just nonsense.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Who is 'I am' doesn't make any senses in English? Are you in your senses? Who is Whodey or who is Robbie Carrobie makes sense but who is 'I am' is just nonsense.

In the story of Moses, God names himself "I am". All religious Jews at that time would have linked calling yourself "I am" as claiming to be God.

Originally posted by Eladar
In the story of Moses, God names himself "I am". All religious Jews at that time would have linked calling yourself "I am" as claiming to be God.

Regardless of what it is it doesn't make any sense in English. 'Who is I am?', is simply nonsensical. I doubt very much if the text 'I am ', is an accurate translation of the original Hebrew and even if it was there are many verses where people state 'I am', in the Bible and yet only in reference to Jesus does it supposedly take on some magical significance.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Nowhere does Jesus actually claim to be God in any of the texts that you have cited.

John 1:1 the term, The Word was God is a mistranslation which ignores both the original Greek idiom and standard English grammatical structure. Why is the the case? Because the term for which your translators have translated God as and 'The Word was God', is a pr ...[text shortened]... .- 1 Corinthians 15:28

Some rather inconvenient verses for those who claim that Christ is God

I guess we in the end are all going to believe what we believe in the way we understand a thing.

As far as me claiming that Jesus claimed to be God in the texts I provided? Please reread what I wrote, I specifically said that Jesus did not make that claim of himself that I know of.

Forum conversations are a lot like work sometimes.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Who is 'I am' doesn't make any senses in English? Are you in your senses? 'Who was that at the door?', makes sense but who is 'I am' is just nonsense.

So what are you saying exactly, when Jesus spoke 'I am', you believe to be nonsense? If I understand you correctly?

Originally posted by leunammi
So what are you saying exactly, when Jesus spoke 'I am', you believe to be nonsense? If I understand you correctly?

I have explained it, we don't say 'who is I am', in English, its a nonsense statement. We say things like, who was that actor in that film, we do not say, 'who is I am', its simply grammatically incorrect. I thought I made this clear, obviously not clear enough.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Regardless of what it is it doesn't make any sense in English. 'Who is I am?', is simply nonsensical. I doubt very much if the text 'I am ', is an accurate translation of the original Hebrew and even if it was there are many verses where people state 'I am', in the Bible and yet only in reference to Jesus does it supposedly take on some magical significance.

Where else does a person claim to be I am?

Originally posted by leunammi
I guess we in the end are all going to believe what we believe in the way we understand a thing.

As far as me claiming that Jesus claimed to be God in the texts I provided? Please reread what I wrote, I specifically said that Jesus did not make that claim of himself that I know of.

Forum conversations are a lot like work sometimes.

Belief is one thing, substantiating and corroborative reasoning quite another. Ok then we agree, Christ did not make the claim that he was God.

Originally posted by Eladar
Where else does a perso claim to be I am?

Then I heard the voice of Jehovah saying: “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” And I said: “Here I am! Send me!” - Isaiah

and thousands of other instances. The point is that Christ is not claiming to be The I AM or whatever your translators are trying to impose on the reader from scripture, he is simply making a reference to his pre human existence and infact we know this from the verse in question which is dependent for its understanding on chronology otherwise why does Jesus mention Abraham? Why doesn't he simply say, I am the I AM of Exodus? Why mention Abraham at all?