25 Dec 16
Originally posted by EladarWords of Jesus.
So Jesus said here I am?
Or did Jesus simply say I am.
Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
John 8:52-59 KJV
25 Dec 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe reason he mentions Abraham is obvious, he was before him and that is the point that he was making.
Then I heard the voice of Jehovah saying: “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” And I said: [b]“Here I am! Send me!” - Isaiah
and thousands of other instances. The point is that Christ is not claiming to be The I AM or whatever your translators are trying to impose on the reader from scripture, he is simply making a reference to his p ...[text shortened]... ention Abraham? Why doesn't he simply say, I am the I AM of Exodus? Why mention Abraham at all?[/b]
I am not inclined buy your explanation, sorry no offense.
25 Dec 16
Originally posted by EladarJesus did not simply say 'I am', you are talking nonsense. He said according to your translation, 'before Abram was born', I am', which doesn't make much grammatical sense, but it is what it is. A much better translation would be,
So Jesus said here I am?
Or did Jesus simply say I am.
"In most solemn truth," answered Jesus, "I tell you that before Abraham came into existence, I am." - Weymouth New Testament
or
Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been. - NWT
Its rather clear from the text that Jesus is making reference to his prehuman existence, otherwise, why mention Abraham at all? Something which you seem unable to answer. Also can you tell us why the term 'I am', takes on special significance in the case of Jesus but not Isaiah? This you have also neglected to answer.
25 Dec 16
3 edits
Originally posted by leunammiWhether you are inclined or not is neither here nor there, I am at least providing reasoning, you are pandering your opinion as if it constitutes reason, I am sorry but its simply not good enough.
The reason he mentions Abraham is obvious, he was before him and that is the point that he was making.
I am not inclined buy your explanation, sorry no offense.
25 Dec 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobiePlease reread what I posted, I did not say that Jesus did not make the claim he was God, the scriptures I provided imply it. The Revelation scripture perhaps can be a declaration of who Jesus is.
Belief is one thing, substantiating and corroborative reasoning quite another. Ok then we agree, Christ did not make the claim that he was God.
You should reconsider before going off on 'the translators', JW translators are shaky at best. IMO.
25 Dec 16
1 edit
Originally posted by leunammiI don't think they imply anything of the sort and I have where necessary provided reasons why. I have already told you, your opinion is meaningless without corroboration and I suspect that you have no way of knowing what an accurate translation is and what is not otherwise you would have known about John 1:1.
Please reread what I posted, I did not say that Jesus did not make the claim he was God, the scriptures I provided imply it. The Revelation scripture perhaps can be a declaration of who Jesus is.
You should reconsider before going off on 'the translators', JW translators are shaky at best. IMO.
25 Dec 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell considering I am only answering a question and it is up to the reader 'to find out the answer to such questions' for themselves by their own research and investigation, and the fact that I am not about trying to impress anybody.... I am ok with what thoughts I have conveyed.
Whether you are inclined or not is neither here nor there, I am at least providing reasoning, you are pandering your opinion as if it constitutes reason, I am sorry but its simply not good enough.
25 Dec 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhatever you say.
I don't think they imply anything of the sort and I have where necessary provided reasons why. I have already told you, your opinion is meaningless without corroboration and I suspect that you have no way of knowing what an accurate translation is and what is not otherwise you would have known about John 1:1.
25 Dec 16
In John 8:58 the words translated as "I am" are the Greek words "ego eimi". There is nothing unique about those two words and are used many places other than by Jesus in John 8:58.
Look at the definition of "eimi":
Strong's Concordance
eimi: I exist, I am
Original Word: εἰμί
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eimi
Phonetic Spelling: (i-mee'😉
Short Definition: I am, exist
Definition: I am, exist.
So it is also "I exist" and is translated as such elsewhere in the Bible. The context in which Jesus said "ego eimi" is important.
John 8
56“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” 57So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”
The Jews explicitly question Jesus on His claim that Abraham has seen Him. In that context it makes perfect sense for Jesus to have responded, "...before Abraham was born, [I EXIST]".
Jesus is not making a claim that He is God. Jesus is making the claim that He EXISTED. The idea that it is an overt claim to be God is nonsensical.