Why didn't their prayers save the Jews?

Originally posted by FMF
Most threads end after (on average) about 50 or 60 posts.

LOL

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Do you meditate at all now?

Yes, sure. But it doesn't involve petitioning for anything. It is not an attempt to communicate with 'someone' or 'something' external to me. So I wouldn't describe it as prayer.

Originally posted by FMF
Yes, sure. But it doesn't involve petitioning for anything. It is not an attempt to communicate with 'someone' or 'something' external to me. So I wouldn't describe it as prayer.

Well, there are forms of prayer that do not involve petitioning anything external to you but focus on 'unknowing' and so are remarkably similar to certain forms of meditation. Your God-assumptions are somewhat modern and Western in bias.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Your God-assumptions are somewhat modern and Western in bias.

I don't have any "God assumptions" that I am aware of - unless you can show me that I do - but I have no doubt my "religion assumptions" are very influenced by the ones I have had first hand experience/contact with.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
there are forms of prayer that do not involve petitioning anything external to you ....

I don't accept this. I would say such "forms of prayer", if referred to as such, are using the word "prayer" incorrectly.

Originally posted by FMF
I don't accept this. I would say such "forms of prayer", if referred to as such, are using the word "prayer" incorrectly.

Take it up with the Eastern Church ... the RCC would support your view.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Take it up with the Eastern Church ... the RCC would support your view.

I just see it as a lexicographical matter. Prayer = communication and/or petition and/or worship. I see no benefit to be had from fudging or diluting the meaning of this useful word. A somewhat prescriptive detour from my normal descriptive approach to such things, perhaps. 🙂

Originally posted by galveston75
Actually God no longer calls the Jews his people. They did not accept Jesus who is God's son as the Messiah and was actually behind his death he no longer deals, protects or blesses them.

So God now turns his back on the Jewish people?

This theology sounds very bizzare to me. After all, Jesus laid down his life, they did not take it from him.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
'According to theology'. To unpack the assumptions that phrase implies, you'd need recourse to a library of books as numerous as the victims of the Holocaust.

It seems rather interesting to me to think that evil can exist if there be a God, but only a certain amount is acceptable. Whether it be one person or 6 million, the fact remains that hell exists here on earth for many. I guess it all dwindles down to the age old question, how can evil exist if there be an all powerful and all knowing benevolent God?

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
there are no facts that you listed. the facts are that the covenant made with isaac was eternal. that means it won't change and refer to someone else in the future. it's not a spiritual thing. it's a physical covenant; the descendants of isaac will be god's people and he their god.

christ/paul or whoever in the new testament changing things ...[text shortened]... physical descendants; and finally that you are completely wrong.

but thanks for trying.

its a pity for you that both scriptural and historical evidence refutes these claims, oh well.

YouTube

Originally posted by FMF
I just see it as a lexicographical matter. Prayer = communication and/or petition and/or worship. I see no benefit to be had from fudging or diluting the meaning of this useful word. A somewhat prescriptive detour from my normal descriptive approach to such things, perhaps. 🙂

Yeah whatever. Different religious communities apply the word differently, yet you see fit to legislate the meaning because it's 'useful' to you.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Yeah whatever. Different religious communities apply the word differently, yet you see fit to legislate the meaning because it's 'useful' to you.

Well isn't the difference between "prayer" and "meditation" useful for you too?

Different religious communities apply the word differently...

English speaking communities or people translating their religious practices into English? "Prayer" and "meditation" are conventional words found in English dictionaries.

Originally posted by FMF
Why didn't the prayers of Jews save them from the Holocaust?

According to theology, what could God's purpose have been in allowing his purportedly 'Chosen people' to suffer the partially successful attempt to exterminate them in the mid-C20th?

You may as well ask what was God's purpose in bringing about the Babylonian Exile?

Same, same. The Jews have a long history of turning their faces from God at the worst possible time.

Originally posted by Suzianne
The Jews have a long history of turning their faces from God at the worst possible time.

You mean you think they were not praying to be delivered from the Holocaust because they were turning their faces from God, or their prayers were futile because they had a long history of turning their faces from God?

Originally posted by whodey
So God now turns his back on the Jewish people?

This theology sounds very bizzare to me. After all, Jesus laid down his life, they did not take it from him.

He laid down his life for all of mankind.