13 Mar 12
Originally posted by Bosse de Nagehe prayed to be spared.
Accepting his lot, Jesus cried out to God but did not ask to be spared.
So it would be true to say that Jews who face death without pleading are like Jesus. Samurai of the spirit.
Mat 26:39 And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."
13 Mar 12
Originally posted by VoidSpiritMy interpretation: he asked that his mental and physical suffering end, in the manner that the Father willed.
he prayed to be spared.
Mat 26:39 And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."
His suffering did end.
There's no petition here to save his life.
13 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI've always thought that the crux of the suffering was his known soon to be seperation from the Father. If you notice, Jesus refers to God as his Father throughtout the text. The only place this does not take place is on the cross when Jesus became sin for us. At that moment, he said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
My interpretation: he asked that his mental and physical suffering end, in the manner that the Father willed.
His suffering did end.
There's no petition here to save his life.
13 Mar 12
Originally posted by Bosse de Nagehe wasn't going through any suffering at that time. this prayer to be spared was made before the betrayal.
My interpretation: he asked that his mental and physical suffering end, in the manner that the Father willed.
His suffering did end.
There's no petition here to save his life.
13 Mar 12
2 edits
Originally posted by VoidSpiritNo its not irrelevant, its quite the opposite, please do not project your ignorance of
such is irrelevant. in the old testament, biblegod made an eternal covenant with the descendants of isaac. if a covenant is eternal, it can't be changed, otherwise the word of god is worthless.
the new testament, jesus declared a change of the covenant, but jesus introduced a new god called the "father." this is not the god of the old testament who ...[text shortened]... ng to lead the jews away to worship foreign gods. they stayed with the god of their fathers.
Biblical details onto others, clearly both prophetically and historically God was forming
a new nation which was to be spiritual Israel for the former one was abandoned
because of its iniquity towards God and his prophets. The Abrahamic covenant as well
as the Davidic then became the inheritance of this new spiritual nation, irrelevant???
you have missed the entire point, strange considering its all there in the ancient text,
but then again, so did the Israelites of old.
13 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by VoidSpiritYour statement is another complete and utter fallacy, note the account of Luke, a
he wasn't going through any suffering at that time. this prayer to be spared was made before the betrayal.
physician who adds the rather telling details,
(Luke 22:42-44) . . .“Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let,
not my will, but yours take place.” Then an angel from heaven appeared to him and
strengthened him. But getting into an agony he continued praying more earnestly;
and his sweat became as drops of blood falling to the ground.
Clearly Christ was under enormous emotional stress. The Journal of the American
Medical Association states “Although this is a very rare phenomenon, bloody sweat
may occur in highly emotional states.”
wasn't suffering? oh dear oh dear, what would you call it?
13 Mar 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieyou show complete ignorance of the hebrew god and his covenant. clearly you don't understand the meaning of the term "eternal."
No its not irrelevant, its quite the opposite, please do not project your ignorance of
Biblical details onto others, clearly both prophetically and historically God was forming
a new nation which was to be spiritual Israel for the former one was abandoned
because of its iniquity towards God and his prophets. The Abrahamic covenant as well
as ...[text shortened]... e considering its all there in the ancient text,
but then again, so did the Israelites of old.
please look it up and educate yourself.
13 Mar 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieyou're getting hysterical. bosse stated "mental and physical suffering...," this could only refer to the event either during or directly after the torture/crucifixion. ergo, during the time of that prayer, he was not under both mental and physical suffering.
Your statement is another complete and utter fallacy, note the account of Luke, a
physician who adds the rather telling details,
(Luke 22:42-44) . . .“Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let,
not my will, but yours take place.” Then an angel from heaven appeared to him and
strengthened him. But getting into an agon ...[text shortened]... cur in highly emotional states.”
wasn't suffering? oh dear oh dear, what would you call it?
whatever pointless argument you want to make of this is completely irrelevant. what is relevant is that jesus prayed to be spared.
14 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by VoidSpirit
he wasn't going through any suffering at that time. this prayer to be spared was made before the betrayal.
he wasn't going through any suffering at that time. this prayer to be spared was made before the betrayal.
I think Jesus was suffering at that time. I think Jesus was suffering throughout His entire life on earth. His time in the garden was a suffering too;
Matthew 26:36 - 38 - " ... Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane ... taking Peter and the two sons of Zebedee aside, He began to be sorrowful and deeply distressed.
Then He said to them, My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Remain here and watch with Me."
His sorrow of soul was so great it was even enough to cause death. How can we say He was not suffering in the garden ?
14 Mar 12
4 edits
Originally posted by VoidSpiritAs i have stated i am not disputing that its eternal, please learn to read properly.
you show complete ignorance of the hebrew god and his covenant. clearly you don't understand the meaning of the term "eternal."
please look it up and educate yourself.
Ignorance??, you were unaware even of the name of the covenant and have provided
less details than the secret service, it is to laugh! Its not my fault God abandoned the
iniquitous Hebrews and formed a new spiritual nation of Israel, is it.
14 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by VoidSpiritI am not getting emotionally involved at all, your statement, once again now lying on
you're getting hysterical. bosse stated "mental and physical suffering...," this could only refer to the event either during or directly after the torture/crucifixion. ergo, during the time of that prayer, he was not under both mental and physical suffering.
whatever pointless argument you want to make of this is completely irrelevant. what is relevant is that jesus prayed to be spared.
the forum floor in tatters stated that Christ did not suffer, clearly he did, as is evidenced
by the portion of scripture that was cited, suck it up for no amount of provisos,
amendments, back peddling or any other references will negate this, all you need to do
is admit that you are wrong or at very least posted another inaccuracy, its no shame,
we are all imperfect and prone to aberration.
he wasn't going through any suffering at that time - void spirit
14 Mar 12
Originally posted by jaywillyou're welcome to think what you like, i'll stick with what the scriptures say, and they say jesus prayed to be spared. nothing else is relevant to this point.he wasn't going through any suffering at that time. this prayer to be spared was made before the betrayal.
I think Jesus was suffering at that time. I think Jesus was suffering throughout His entire life on earth. His time in the garden was a suffering too;
14 Mar 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieit's is a sad and deceitful god that you worship, one who backpedals on his covenant.
As i have stated i am not disputing that its eternal, please learn to read properly.
Ignorance??, you were unaware even of the name of the covenant and have provided
less details than the secret service, it is to laugh! Its not my fault God abandoned the
iniquitous Hebrews and formed a new spiritual nation of Israel, is it.
he sounds more like lord vader:
"i'm altering the deal, pray i do not alter it any further."
that's the god you worship.
14 Mar 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobie-if you can show that jesus was going through physical suffering during the time he prayed to be spared, by all means do so.
I am not getting emotionally involved at all, your statement, once again now lying on
the forum floor in tatters stated that Christ did not suffer, clearly he did, as is evidenced
by the portion of scripture that was cited, suck it up for no amount of provisos,
amendments, back peddling or any other references will negate this, all you need to ...[text shortened]... ct and prone to aberration.
he wasn't going through any suffering at that time - void spirit
-if you can show that jesus did not pray to be spared, by all means do so.
otherwise, your case is completely dismantled.