Why is Christianity in the US dying

@kellyjay said
We cannot say our current human suffering is evil and wrong if it is all just a normal part of the process; we can say we don't like it, which doesn't make it wrong or evil.

We can ~ we have developed moral compasses and codes for living ~ we can do more than say "we don't like it" ~ we can strive to cooperate to tackle the threats to our communal living. Don't be such a defeatist, KellyJay. Put down that jaundiced prism.

@kellyjay said
Hell was created for the devil and his angels, and we, by joining that rebellion against righteousness, goodness, justice, which is God, will also find ourselves in that place as we do the same thing Satan did and does. Redemption is an act of grace and mercy, not something that needs to occur, but because of the love of God, we have been given a chance, squandering that which cost the Word of God to become sin for us only adds to the guilt we have.

I don't believe any of this.

Do you think I deserved to be punished?

@kellyjay said
How old this story is doesn't mean it is true or false, not sure why you think adding the C1st is meaningful.

Because "the C1st" is when the mythology that you subscribe to started when it differentiated itself from the ancient Hebrew mythology that had preceded it.

@fmf said
Neither of us knows how the universe or how humans originated.

Whatever we believe will be a matter of faith, but do you even have a thought, a possibility, an educated or even an uneducated guess?

@fmf said
We can ~ we have developed moral compasses and codes for living ~ we can do more than say "we don't like it" ~ we can strive to cooperate to tackle the threats to our communal living. Don't be such a defeatist, KellyJay. Put down that jaundiced prism.

Jaundiced? No, I'm simply looking at reality as it is, you can strive to improve, but in a broken human race, improving means, there is a direction everyone wants to go. One communal living culture doesn't always agree with the next one, so do you have something other than to each their own?

@fmf said
I don't believe any of this.

Do you think I deserved to be punished?

It comes down to God as He is the creator. He creates everything, everyone, nothing that is, isn't here through any other means. He set up His Kingdom to be populated with those whose moral compass is always pointed to love. Anything short of that isn't good enough, let alone all of those who even refuse to acknowledge the One who created them are standing in the wrath that refuses Him and His ways despite His creation of them. You know the answer, the wrath of God is on us all outside of Christ.

@fmf said
Because "the C1st" is when the mythology that you subscribe to started when it differentiated itself from the ancient Hebrew mythology that had preceded it.

If you are referring to OT and NT, the NT didn't differentiate itself from the OT; it fulfilled all that was needed and laid down a foundation for Christ to come.

@kellyjay said
Jaundiced? No, I'm simply looking at reality as it is, you can strive to improve, but in a broken human race, improving means, there is a direction everyone wants to go.

Yes. Completely jaundiced, regardless of whether you describe your own pessimism and misanthropy as "looking at reality as it is".

@fmf said
Yes. Completely jaundiced, regardless of whether you describe your own pessimism and misanthropy as "looking at reality as it is".

Well, I am not going to argue with an opinion.

@kellyjay said
One communal living culture doesn't always agree with the next one, so do you have something other than to each their own?

We have families and neighbourhoods and communities and schools and workplaces and religious groups and towns and cities and laws and courts and so on. All embodying and creating continuity of values and norms and standards. Yes, you are being utterly jaundiced.

@kellyjay said
Well, I am not going to argue with an opinion.

All you are offering is opinions, KellyJay and borderline toxic ones if you don't mind me saying.

@kellyjay said
If you are referring to OT and NT, the NT didn't differentiate itself from the OT; it fulfilled all that was needed and laid down a foundation for Christ to come.

I am referring to your beliefs about Jesus. That's what "the C1st" refers to. Gosh.

@kellyjay said
It comes down to God as He is the creator. He creates everything, everyone, nothing that is, isn't here through any other means. He set up His Kingdom to be populated with those whose moral compass is always pointed to love. Anything short of that isn't good enough, let alone all of those who even refuse to acknowledge the One who created them are standing in the wrath that ...[text shortened]... despite His creation of them. You know the answer, the wrath of God is on us all outside of Christ.

Once again. I don't believe any of this. Do you think I, therefore, deserved to be punished by eternal torture? Does your moral compass tell you that is morally sound?

@kellyjay said
Anything short of that isn't good enough, let alone all of those who even refuse to acknowledge the One who created them are standing in the wrath that refuses Him and His ways despite His creation of them.

all of those who even refuse to acknowledge the One who created them

If there is a "One" who created us, I don't think you have any information whatsoever about him or it.

Is the morally sound response to this - me finding your beliefs not credible - to do the equivalent of putting me in a gas oven in Belsen, not let me die, and leave me there for 3,000,000,000 years and then for infinity after that?

@fmf said
All you are offering is opinions, KellyJay and borderline toxic ones if you don't mind me saying.

Every time one of us speaks, we offer opinions; do you think something different is supposed to occur?