You Think You Are Eternally Saved? Really? Read This !

Originally posted by RJHinds
Do you believe that the person that drawsback from God had ever accepted Christ as his savior? Or perhaps he was just trying to learn some teachings about God, then drewback and rejected God.

The Instructor

what is it about these people being Christians and because of practising iniquity being no longer acceptable to God that you dont understand?

(Matthew 7:21-23) “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.

Rajk is correct, both Paul and Peter refer to a Christian losing his faith and Christian identity, Christ clearly states in the above passage that there are those professing Christianity, who because they 'work lawlessness', will not see salvation, despite their claims. The once saved always saved mantra is a nonsense.

sin can be forgiven, but deliberately and consciously sinning under the false pretence that you will be forgiven because you are saved is to make a mockery of the Christ, Paul states that such persons subject the Christ to ridicule all over again.

(Hebrews 10:26) For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Do you believe that the person that drawsback from God had ever accepted Christ as his savior? Or perhaps he was just trying to learn some teachings about God, then drewback and rejected God.

The Instructor

Who am I, or you, or Checkbaiter or any pastor or anyone to know the heart of man? Think carefully about that.

This is the foolishness of modern Christianity. Nobody knows who is born again except Christ and God.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what is it about these people being Christians and because of practising iniquity being no longer acceptable to God that you dont understand?

(Matthew 7:21-23) “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one [b]doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that eived the accurate knowledge of the truth[/b], there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left.[/b]

Thanks for those references. I was looking for that one in Hebrews and found this one instead ...

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

This one is in much stronger language and refutes the claims by RJ and CB that these were not born again or not true Christians, as these who fell away actually enlightened, were partakers of the Holy Spirit etc .. and yet they fell away and CANNOT obtain repentance.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Some references would be nice CB. Both Paul and Peter disagree with you. Can you comment on the passages I quoted?

Lets start here...
1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God
NKJV

In the flesh they sin, no one can live the rest of their lives here on earth and not sin. But in the spirit, they are uncontaminated, they cannot sin.

1 Peter 1:22-24

22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
NKJV
As I said, the seed in a Christian is incorruptible..

Heb 10:8-14
First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9 Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13 Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
NIV

The first covenant was the law, but Jesus established the second, which is his sacrifice...notice he made those who are his perfect forever.

1 John 1:5-10

5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
NIV
You must know, this is how we get back in fellowship with the Lord if we do sin.
1 Cor 3:12-15
If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
NIV
This means that a person with sin will make it even if "barely"

The passages you quoted are referring to people who sin and turn away, either were never really born again, or they were, but then they allow Satan to come and destroy their lives. That is why I said they live miserable lives, even worse than if they had never been born again. They will be defeated Christians and will look no better than an unbeliever, but if they were born again, they will still be saved even if through fire.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You have totally missed the point KJ. Many here believe in eternal salvation ie born again Christians if they sin will still get salvation.

Im not discussing anything about earning salvation. Im ignoring anything that is off topic.

Do you have anything to say about what the Apostle Peter said in the opening post in relation to the claim that a born again Christian cannot lose his salvation.

Is Peter saying that he can, or not?

Okay, well I agree with you that you can walk away from Christ there are
warnings in scripture to be careful least it happens. I'd just add that no one
can pluck you from God and no matter what God will and can see us
through all things, but it is always God's grace that saves us.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Okay, well I agree with you that you can walk away from Christ there are
warnings in scripture to be careful least it happens. I'd just add that no one
can pluck you from God and no matter what God will and can see us
through all things, but it is always God's grace that saves us.
Kelly

Well thanks for partially agreeing KJ, but are you saying that you can walk away from God and end up losing your salvation?

I ask because this is what the bible is saying but you still seem to disagree.

And yes noone can pluck you from Gods hand but what does that have to do with what we are talking about. That is another irrelevant statement. Is it your opinion that ALL Christians are in Gods hands? Because that is certainly not the case.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Lets start here...
[b]1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God
NKJV

In the flesh they sin, no one can live the rest of their lives here on earth and not sin. But in the spirit, they are uncontaminated, they cannot sin.

1 Peter 1:22-24

22 Sinc ...[text shortened]... n unbeliever, but if they were born again, they will still be saved even if through fire.

Do you claim to know who :

1. Is Born Again or
2. Born of God ?

If so please explain it to me.

How does someone know who is born of God or born again.

Is it ALL Christians
Is it some who have done certain things?

What exactly?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Do you claim to know who :

1. Is Born Again or
2. Born of God ?

If so please explain it to me.

How does someone know who is born of God or born again.

Is it ALL Christians
Is it some who have done certain things?

What exactly?

I didn't say I know WHO is born again, I only know I am born again. I am quoting to you the bible, you figure out what it means.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I didn't say I know WHO is born again, I only know I am born again. I am quoting to you the bible, you figure out what it means.

Well in that case what do you think of people who claim to know that OTHERS [not themselves] are born again and are saved. How can they know that? I ask because in some of the links you provided these people claim to know this.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Well in that case what do you think of people who claim to know that OTHERS [not themselves] are born again and are saved. How can they know that? I ask because in some of the links you provided these people claim to know this.

I can tell if I know the person, or if God tells me.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I can tell if I know the person, or if God tells me.

So you can know if a person is saved or not by knowing the person or if God tells you. I guess I cannot argue with that.

Do you think that Jaywill/sonship can for example know that over the internet and tell people that if they accept Christ with their mouth they will be saved etc etc? You think he knows everyone?

Can you not see the stupidity of that teaching?

Originally posted by Rajk999
So you can know if a person is saved or not by knowing the person or if God tells you. I guess I cannot argue with that.

Do you think that Jaywill/sonship can for example know that over the internet and tell people that if they accept Christ with their mouth they will be saved etc etc? You think he knows everyone?

Can you not see the stupidity of that teaching?

He is only stating what the bible clearly says. Do you think the bible is untrue?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
He is only stating what the bible clearly says. Do you think the bible is untrue?

It is misleading , worse deliberately misleading to state the nice part only without saying parts like this ..

1. ... if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. (Hebrews 10:38 KJV)

2. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Pet 2:20-21)

3. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:21-23 KJV)

4. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Hebrews 10:26 KJV)

5. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

Originally posted by Rajk999
It is misleading , worse deliberately misleading to state the nice part only without saying parts like this ..

1. ... if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. (Hebrews 10:38 KJV)

2. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled ther ...[text shortened]... ucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

Do you believe the entire bible is the word of God? Or only the parts you agree with?

Originally posted by Rajk999
I don't know what you mean by 'unsaved'. The term does not exist in the Bible. I said that the BIBLE said that someone who drawbacks from God will not get eternal life. Please read the opening post again.

Christ will judge all people. What I will say to a repentant person is 'good luck'. I cannot answer you any further.

It seems that you are not being entirely honest as you used the term "salvation" yourself to explain your position in the matter. I may be being somewhat assumptive, but I do think you should stop trying to draw spiritual lines in the sand and make some effort to be a little more pragmatic, in terms of the out workings of your positon on eternal life and access to it.