You Think You Are Eternally Saved? Really? Read This !

Originally posted by galveston75
Not a good subject here I'd say...

Joke man with crude undertones but never the less just a joke.....it's ok to laugh


Manny

Originally posted by galveston75
Lets ask this....would you agree that the first ones who accepted Jesus and did all they could do as he asked and pretty much did that even with mistakes made, would have been the first that would be given that salvation by Jesus?

Not following your question, one of the very first was the guy dying on the
cross next to him. You have something else in mind?
Kelly

Originally posted by galveston75
Lets ask this....would you agree that the first ones who accepted Jesus and did all they could do as he asked and pretty much did that even with mistakes made, would have been the first that would be given that salvation by Jesus?

But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

(Matthew 19:30 NKJV)

The Instructor

your assertions are completely without foundation and you simply believe your own propaganda, nothing else here for me, I pointed out your iniquity but now I realise that

More grandiose pronouncements. Do you have anything else besides grandstanding ?

its nothing for a trinitarian to impose whatever he wants onto the sacred text, regardless if its explicitly stated or not.

Nothing in your Watchtower heresy can refute my interpretation of the parables that -

1.) Any discipline administered by God to a Christian can only be temporary.

2.) Any discipline administered to a Christian after the second coming can only be temporary.

3.) The parable of Matthew 18:23 - 35 pertains to Christ calling His servants to Him at His judgment seat -

"Then his master called him to [him] ... " (v.32)

All disciples of Jesus will be called to Christ at His judgment seat just before He established His millennial kingdom on the planet.

4.) The parable of Luke 12:35-48 relates to the Christ dealing with His servants immediately after His second coming -

" ... Who then is the faithful and prudent steward, whom the master will set over his service ... Blessed is that slave whom his master, WHEN HE COMES, will find so doing. " (v.42,43)

The phrase "when he comes" relates to the second coming of Christ.

"But if the slave says in his heart, My master is delaying [his] coming ..." (v.45)

The phrase "delaying his coming" also relates to the second coming of Christ.

"The master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him ..." (v.46)

This also relates to the second coming of Christ, when the disobedient servant does not expect Him.

THEREFORE the conclusion of verses 47,48 are concerning the discipline of the Lord towards His servants AFTER His second coming.

And such disicpline is and has to be temporary and not eternal.


Your grandstanding and grandiose pronouncements are without real substance. I don't know who you think you are impressing.

Prove that "lashes" go on forever towards the servant in verses 47 and 48.

Prove that "many lashes" is an infinite number of lashes in verse 47 -
"And that slave who knew his master's will and did not prepare or do according to his will, will receive many lashes." (v.47)

Or prove that "few lashes" is an infinite number of lashes in verse 48 -

"But he who did not know, yet did things worthy of stripes, will receive few stripes." (v.48)

Prove that the servant rewarded positively in verse 42-44 does not pertain to reward administered to Christ's servant immediately after His second coming -

"Blessed is that slave whom his master, WHEN HE COMES, will find so doing. Truly I tell you that he will set him over all his possessions." (v.44)

Originally posted by KellyJay
Not following your question, one of the very first was the guy dying on the
cross next to him. You have something else in mind?
Kelly

Sure that is an example to speak of. I was also thinking of the apostles and the rest of his closer followers. Jesus hand picked some of them to eventually be with him in heaven after they would die or after being "born again" as in a spirit, no longer a human.
But they never once said to anyone that they were saved at that moment or any moment as a human. They eventually knew that they had a future with Jesus in heaven and were of the "little flock" but yet not once did they ever say they were saved as some here do now.
So why were they not given this salvation yet as a human as some here at RHP claim to be?
What would have been the problem if Jehovah had saved them then? How would the Judas issue been handled?
That would have been a serious issue, right? If all of them as imperfect humans would have been given salvation then instead of the future after death which would make more sense, Judas and some of the others that decided not to follow Jesus and moved away from him were saved and could it not be reversed, we'd have a problem.
This is why satan and all the angels that followed him were never given immortality as well as Adam and Eve.
Even Jesus was not immortal until he was raised back to heaven and given the final approval by his Father Jehovah to have this future.
Why wasn't he already given this immortality? It is because he could have sinned and turned his back on his Father and satan knew this fact. That is why he tried to tempt him to sin.
So the point here is no one that is human and does still sin and could still turn their backs on God at anytime, is saved. Being saved in the Bible is referring to as being immortal.
No where does the bible say that humans will ever be immortal that are on the earth.
But the Bible does describe that Jesus was given that as well as the ones Jesus picked to rule with him in heaven, the 144,000.

Originally posted by RJHinds
[b]But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

(Matthew 19:30 NKJV)

The Instructor[/b]

Ok..what does this have to do with the discussion? If you quote a scripture you need to explain it's application as the instructor that you are would do.

Jesus hand picked some of them to eventually be with him in heaven after they would die or after being "born again" as in a spirit, no longer a human.

Where does it say that some were hand picked to be in heaven ?

Where does it say one "born again" as in spirit is no longer a human ?

But they never once said to anyone that they were saved at that moment or any moment as a human.

John tells the recipients of his First Epistle that they KNOW that they have eternal life -

" I have written these things to you that you may know tha you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13)

They eventually knew that they had a future with Jesus in heaven and were of the "little flock" but yet not once did they ever say they were saved as some here do now.

The verse above doesn't mention heaven or being with Jesus in heaven. It simply is an assurance given to the disciples that all who have believed into Jesus Christ have eternal life.

If you do not believe that you have eternal life it is probably because you have not believed into the name of Jesus Christ. So you don't know about yourself. And you want to make everyone else who HAS believed into the name of Christ to be as unsure as you are.

So why were they not given this salvation yet as a human as some here at RHP claim to be?

You must not have the salvation. And you must want to insist that no one else has the salvation either because you don't.

Back to the New Testament - "And this is the testimony that God has given to us eternal life and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (1 John 5:11,12)

Galveston, maybe you just don't have the assurance of salvation because you don't have the Son of God in whom the eternal life IS. You speak then for yourself.

John informs those who HAVE the Son of God - "He who has the Son has the life ... I have written these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God."

The issue is not where to go, as in heaven. The issue is that NOW in this age those who believe into the Son of God must KNOW that they HAVE eternal life.

Originally posted by sonship

Jesus hand picked some of them to eventually be with him in heaven after they would die or after being "born again" as in a spirit, no longer a human.

Where does it say that some were hand picked to be in heaven ?

Where does it say one "born again" as in spirit is no longer a human ?

[quote]
But they never once said to anyone th ge those who believe into the Son of God must KNOW that they HAVE eternal life.

" I have written these things to you that you may know tha you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13)

You have to read what the scripture says. Does it say they "now" have eternal life or salvation? No it doesn't as no scripture ever says that. All the scriptures speak of a future time that this would be given them.
And in case no one has noticed, they all died because of the inherited sinful nature they got from Adam which would include old age and sicknesses that goes with that.
If they were truly saved "then" they would never have died.

So for ones who think they are saved "now", it can't be as we are all ageing and will die.
The Bible CLEARLY says that all men sin and no one is saved until the end of a time period that God desides who is given life or will die.
That end has not happened yet, so no one is saved yet.
If one hears a voice that tells them they are saved, it's not from God as the end has not happened yet and we all still sin.
Not even Jesus was saved as long as he was a human and he did not sin. It wasn't until he was raised to heaven did his father give him that gift of immortality.

Originally posted by sonship

Jesus hand picked some of them to eventually be with him in heaven after they would die or after being "born again" as in a spirit, no longer a human.

Where does it say that some were hand picked to be in heaven ?

Where does it say one "born again" as in spirit is no longer a human ?

[quote]
But they never once said to anyone th ...[text shortened]... ge those who believe into the Son of God must KNOW that they HAVE eternal life.

Have you missed the term "chosen ones" in your Bible? Did Jesus not hand pick the original chosen ones that became his apostles and the cornerstones of his Kingdom?
Is that not being hand picked?

Originally posted by sonship

Jesus hand picked some of them to eventually be with him in heaven after they would die or after being "born again" as in a spirit, no longer a human.

Where does it say that some were hand picked to be in heaven ?

Where does it say one "born again" as in spirit is no longer a human ?

[quote]
But they never once said to anyone th ...[text shortened]... ge those who believe into the Son of God must KNOW that they HAVE eternal life.

"You must not have the salvation. And you must want to insist that no one else has the salvation either because you don't."

And what makes you think that? You think I want no one to gain life either here on earth as God has promissed or for the chosen ones that do get to go to heaven?
Are you serious?
I guess my 50 years of going door to door and studying with many and trying to teach all that would listen and welcome the chance to get to know who Jehovah and his son Jesus are and the promise they have made to humans to let all live in a paradise that truly want that kind of world to live in, means I don't care?
Lol. You know nothing about me at all or what we believe. Perhaps the next time a JW knocks on your door you should listen a little better.

me:
"You must not have the salvation. And you must want to insist that no one else has the salvation either because you don't."

Galveston:
And what makes you think that?

I think that a possibility because you speak as someone who has no experience of being born again.

Oh, you know about God.
You know a lot of information to teach about God (in your way).

But John said "He who HAS ... the Son".

You never seem to speak as someone who has the Son. You speak as someone who thinks he is doing God a great service by redefining WHO and WHAT the Son is.

You demonstrate you are well trained to talk about the Son in your objective way to redefine the Son as an angel Michael.

John said "He who has the Son ... has the Son ... has the Son ... has the life." The eternal life is IN the Son - "

You do not teach as someone who HAS the Son. You teach as someone who is laboring to REDEFINE the Son as [b]"another Jesus" under the mistaken persuasion that you are doing the Old Testament Jehovah a favor.

You think I want no one to gain life either here on earth as God has promissed or for the chosen ones that do get to go to heaven?
Are you serious?

I believe that you probably do not HAVE the Son because you have not BELIEVED into the Son. You don't believe anyone HAS believed into the Son of God. And those who believe they HAVE the Son you wish to "re-educate" to your level of unbelief - "the Son is the angel Michael".

But the same writer tells the believers that they have an anointing within that teaches them all things pertaining to abiding in the Son.

"And as for you, the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone teach you; but as His anointing teaches you concerning all things and is true and is not a lie, and even as it has taught you, abide in Him." (1 John 2:27)

The "anointing" is a kind of rubbing. If you imagine the rubbing of Vick's Vapor ointment onto the chest of a sick child, you might get a picture.

The "anointing" of the Holy Spirit is like God rubbing around and pressing His Person and His nature into a man's soul. This anointing teaches us that God is trying to impart and dispense the Son of God INTO our personality.

This anointing teaches us not only to have received Christ initially but to continue to ABIDE in Him. For we are use to living by and for ourselves. The rubbing around of the anointing Holy Spirit is real and is no lie. And it teaches us that we have been compounded with Jesus Christ - as He Himself promised .

This anointing is also like painting. We who have received Jesus the Son of God are being "painted" within with Jesus Christ.

Let me say this again please. This anointing, this inward rubbing and pressing of God's Spirit in our inner being, is like God coating over and filling all the nukes and crannies of our soul with - Jesus Christ.

It is a miraculous yet daily experience. And we who have received the Son know that we know that we know we have been dispensed into by God.

I guess my 50 years of going door to door and studying with many and trying to teach all that would listen and welcome the chance to get to know who Jehovah and his son Jesus

For 50 years you have been trying to help people demote the Son of God into one of the angels like Michael or Gabriel, under the deception of the Devil that you are doing Jehovah of the Old Testament a favor.

You think that you are making Jehovah of the Old Testament happy.
It is a deception and a tragedy. And you should get out of it and believe into the Son of God.

are and the promise they have made to humans to let all live in a paradise that truly want that kind of world to live in, means I don't care?
Lol. You know nothing about me at all or what we believe. Perhaps the next time a JW knocks on your door you should listen a little better.

You are doing what CAIN in Genesis chapter 4 did. You reject God's way and hope to offer Him something else. That something is of human invention.

As Cain rejected God's revelation as to how to come to him, your organization has taught you to reject the Son of God. They sent you to offer something "good" to God instead.

He doesn't want your "good" of 50 years. He want Christ the Son of God.

You need to come to Jehovah saying "God I have NOTHING to give except Jesus Christ. I have no good service that can justify me. I have no hard work from door to door to justify me.

I stand before you clothed in Jesus Christ, my ONLY righteousness, my only justification before you for eternal redemption."

"He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life."

Originally posted by galveston75
"You must not have the salvation. And you must want to insist that no one else has the salvation either because you don't."

And what makes you think that? You think I want no one to gain life either here on earth as God has promissed or for the chosen ones that do get to go to heaven?
Are you serious?
I guess my 50 years of going door to door and ...[text shortened]... e believe. Perhaps the next time a JW knocks on your door you should listen a little better.

I believe you love God and are zealous to do his will Galveston. I just don't think your picture of God's will is accurate.

Romans 10:2
New King James Version (NKJV)
2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I believe you love God and are zealous to do his will Galveston. I just don't think your picture of God's will is accurate.

Romans 10:2
New King James Version (NKJV)
2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.

Really? You said you know little about the book of Revelation did you not? So what is this scripture you are quoting to me when you yourself say you don't have much knowledge about the final and probably the most important book in the Bible?
So to tell me I don't have accurate knowledge is really spreading that argument thin...

Originally posted by galveston75
Really? You said you know little about the book of Revelation did you not? So what is this scripture you are quoting to me when you yourself say you don't have much knowledge about the final and probably the most important book in the Bible?
So to tell me I don't have accurate knowledge is really spreading that argument thin...

The most important book in the bible? I don't think so. I would have to choose Romans or Ephesians. The book of Revelation ? I already know what happens in end, God wins.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The most important book in the bible? I don't think so. I would have to choose Romans or Ephesians. The book of Revelation ? I already know what happens in end, God wins.

Yes all the books of the bible are important in different ways. But seriously you don't see the need to know Revelation like the back of your hand considering the time of the end that we are deeply into now? Many things that Revelation speaks of have recently taken place or they are now or will in the very near future.
That is not important to you? Really?

Why not?