06 Feb 18
3 edits
Originally posted by @jacob-vervilleEvidently it wasn't spelled out enough for you. More's the pity. Like I said, " it'll have to do".
Let's just focus on the theological discussion at hand and not let the conversation degenerate too much.
06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @jacob-vervilleConversations over the years with many of the Christians who have resided or still reside on this forum have indicated that they believe Muslims, for example ~ as non-Christians ~ face being burned in "Hell" for eternity. Do you believe my Muslim neighbours have "chosen darkness" and that they are "wicked" ~ on account of the fact that they don't believe in Jesus like you?
I am not celebrating the fact that some people choose darkness. But certainly, it is not a dirty thing to say that it is just for the wicked to be punished.
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06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @jacob-vervilleSure, whatever excuse suits you.
Sure, I'll do that sometime. But not now.
I want it to be fresh at that point. It's quite stale and I think that thread is rightfully dying. You got to let these things breath.
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Originally posted by @jacob-vervilleSo you are going to go back and address your racist comments, but not now, but when the thread dies, and you are going to let it breath?
Sure, I'll do that sometime. But not now.
I want it to be fresh at that point. It's quite stale and I think that thread is rightfully dying. You got to let these things breath.
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Originally posted by @thinkofoneThat doesn't contradict what I am saying and what other parts of the Bible say that you would rather ignore:
No amount of your weasling is going to change what they say. Deal with it.
1 John 3
7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to ...[text shortened]... ly defines the dividing line as to who are "children of God" and who are "children of the devil"
Ephesians 2:8-10: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
No amount of your weaseling is going to change this. Deal with it.
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06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @jacob-vervilleWhat I asked I asked for was how you reconcile eternal torture in hell by your (and others) version of Jesus with scriptures such as John 3:16.
... I can see how, in the great context here, it does not take too much for this to tie into the other Biblical passages that involve the notion of folks who love darkness and reject the light.
Look, I am not celebrating the fact that some people choose darkness. But certainly, it is not a dirty thing to say that it is just for the wicked ...[text shortened]... t reject the notion of evil. After all, they have no concept of immutable virtues and truths.
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Originally posted by @jacob-vervilleThe debate in hand is the OP, the notion and teaching that Jesus who loves people so much that he died for them while they were still sinners, will be then torturing them in hell for eternity if they reject him. It is a completely nonsensical notion.
Let's stick to the debate at hand.
This is the debate in hand Jacob Verville.
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Originally posted by @divegeesterDo you believe everyone will be saved regardless of what they do or believe?
The debate in hand is the OP, the notion and teaching that Jesus who loves people so much that he died for them while they were still sinners, will be then torturing them in hell for eternity if they reject him. It is a completely nonsensical notion.
This is the debate in hand Jacob Verville.
Originally posted by @dj2beckerActually it does contradict what you've been saying.
That doesn't contradict what I am saying and what other parts of the Bible say that you would rather ignore:
Ephesians 2:8-10: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ord ...[text shortened]... at we should walk in them.
No amount of your weaseling is going to change this. Deal with it.
Ezekiel 18
24“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.
1 John 3
7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child,
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06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @thinkofoneIt is only a contradiction if you add words to Ezekiel 18 that aren't. I.e that righteousness is obtained without faith.
Actually it does contradict what you've been saying.
Ezekiel 18
24“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin w ...[text shortened]... e children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child,
06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @dj2beckerYou have a think on it.
It is only a contradiction if you add words to Ezekiel 18 that aren't. I.e that righteousness is obtained without faith.
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Originally posted by @fmfThis is not at all what I said.
Romans1009 cited looking after his mother as an example of 'good works' and his righteousness but it wouldn't be righteous to look after his mother if he weren't a Christian; it would be like "dirty rags".
I said being the sole caretaker for my elderly mother and contributing money to Christian-based charities were examples of my “good works.” I never ssid they made me righteous, because good works don’t make someone righteous.
The “filthy rags” reference was to the idea that a human being’s “good works” could make him righteous (in right standing with God.)
If you’re going to claim I said something, I’d appreciate a little more diligence in confirming that what you are claiming I said is actually what I said.
06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterThere's two parts to the quotation, isn't there?
What I asked I asked for was how you reconcile eternal torture in hell by your (and others) version of Jesus with scriptures such as John 3:16.
Clause One: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son
Clause Two: that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
The second clause is there because the first part has to be contextualized. If the second clause didn't exist, it would imply that the totality of the world was justified by His Son... But the second clause makes it clear that it is for the salvation of those who believe.
Do you see my point?
As for talking about the eternity of hell... What can I say about it from that particular verse?
Not much, other than some people aren't saved, and the implication is that they do not go to heaven.
The Bible is more than John 3:16 for a reason, though, Dive.
Would you like to try to justify your position by using the whole Bible?
And since hell is relevant... perhaps you can cite scriptures about hell found in the Bible, in texts around John 3:16 to justify your position....
John 8
4Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
31 ...If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”