Originally posted by @romans1009What insults? Here is what I said to dj2becker:
It seems you (and other atheists) resort to insults when you’ve been busted on substance. Not interested in responding to trolling insults. If you’ve got nothing substantive to say in response to something I said, maybe you ought to spend some time in reflection and contemplation instead of assuaging your wounded pride by lashing out with insults.
[1] I am presenting Romans1009 with the implications of his words
[2] His words come across as rote-learned bits of dogma being trotted out
[3] If that is so, it means he may not have spent much time thinking about their implications.
Which of those is an "insult"?
06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @romans1009But this is different from what I asked you.
Good works do not make one righteous (in right standing with God) regardless of who does them!
I am not asking if you believe the 'good works' MAKE the Christian righteous.
[1] 'good works' done by a Christian are examples of righteousness.
[2] 'good works' done by a Christian are not examples of righteousness
Which of these is true?
06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @thinkofoneFalse dichotomy.
The gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry or the gospel of Paul?
Choices. Choices.
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06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @fmfInteresting question.
But this is different from what I asked you.
I am not asking if you believe the 'good works' MAKE the Christian righteous.
[1] 'good works' done by a Christian are examples of righteousness.
[2] 'good works' done by a Christian are not examples of righteousness
Which of these is true?
I’m of the mind that “good works” done by a Christian (and certainly one who is strong in reading God’s Word and prayer) are at the leading of God’s Holy Spirit which has indwelt the Christian as such a Christian would be walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh. So I would be loathe to say they are filthy rags or on the same level as “good works” done by an atheist.
But we also have to acknowledge that no one does good works, even similar good works, in the same way.
Take your example of a Christian and an atheist who are the sole caretakers of their elderly mothers.
Wouldn’t you agree that each is not the same as far as the quantity and quality of care given, attitude toward their mother, etc.?
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Originally posted by @thinkofoneYes that we believe. How do you believe without faith? Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29
That would be believe the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry
06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @romans1009Care by a Christian as opposed to care by an atheist? Be clearer.
Wouldn’t you agree that each is not the same as far as the quantity and quality of care given, attitude toward their mother, etc.?
06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @romans1009The Christian might be an assshole about it, and the atheist might be like a "saint". Or it could be the other way around. Sure. Everybody's different.
Take your example of a Christian and an atheist who are the sole caretakers of their elderly mothers. Wouldn’t you agree that each is not the same as far as the quantity and quality of care given, attitude toward their mother, etc.?
06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @romans1009Would your giving-to-charity be more righteous than my giving-to-charity, assuming that our goals were the same, the chosen charity were the same, and the amounts were the same?
But we also have to acknowledge that no one does good works, even similar good works, in the same way.
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06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @fmfFrom my understanding of scripture everyone's best works are like filthy rags before God when those works are done in the flesh.
Would your giving-to-charity be more righteous than my giving-to-charity, assuming that our goals were the same, the chosen charity were the same, and the amounts were the same?
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More to the point though, good works done by a Christian, particularly a Christian who is strong in his or her faith through reading God’s Word and prayer, would be an example of righteousness because God’s Holy Spirit would be directing that Christian for God’s purposes.
That, I believe, is what Paul is referring to in Galatians when he advises Christians to walk in the Spirit.
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Originally posted by @fmfRight. So why try to compare the two? Not only would the required care levels be different but the schedules of the caregivers, the gratitude levels of the mothers and a whole host of other variables would be different.
The Christian might be an assshole about it, and the atheist might be like a "saint". Or it could be the other way around. Sure. Everybody's different.
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Originally posted by @fmfI’m not going to personalize this, but I would say the Christian giving to charity would be more righteous (in right standing with God) if the amounts and charities were identical.
Would your giving-to-charity be more righteous than my giving-to-charity, assuming that our goals were the same, the chosen charity were the same, and the amounts were the same?
The reason is because God looks on the heart and not the outward appearance or outward act.
“And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the Lord's anointed is before him.
But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.”
(1 Samuel 16:6-7)
“Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.“
(2 Corinthians 9:7)
And the widow who gave two mites impressed Jesus more than those who gave much more money (further evidence that the Lord looks on the heart.)
“And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.“
(Mark 12:41-44)
06 Feb 18
Originally posted by @romans1009I thought one is an example of righteousness and the other one is "dirty rags". What do all the things you mention have to do with it?
Right. So why try to compare the two? Not only would the required care levels be different but the schedules of the caregivers, the gratitude levels of the mothers and a whole host of other variables would be different.