17 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by PocketKingsdo you know how many times moyer as thrown 200+(innings) in a season?
There is unfortunately some Schilling talk. But here in Philly we say that Jamie Moyer has more wins. Moyer has piled up some big stats in his 50 years in the majors.
10 times, with last year being less than an inning short of this 11th. thats true production people, i really think he should go in.. i went to the park to see him pitch many times, he never disappointed, even if the mariners didnt win he was fun to watch
17 Jul 08
Schilling has had enough big moments in the post season to guarantee his entry. If Smoltz or Glavine get in (and I think they will) then Schilling is in as well.
I think Pudge Rodriguez is in because of the leadership influence. The Marlins became good when he joined in '03, then the Tigers improved drastically when he went to Detroit. Plus, I think Catcher is the least represented position in the HoF. If he's not voted in by the writers, then by the veterans committee in the future.
I have heard there may be a possibility for Chipper Jones. I think he needs to do a lot more for his legacy to be a lock, though.
Guys who have the potential would include Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, Cliff Lee, Ben Sheets, and Lance Berkman. If these guys keep healthy and keep producing they have a shot.
Probably not Uggla. Not after last night.
If we were to extend this to managers I'd vote Bobby Cox, Joe Torre, Tony LaRussa, Jim Leyland, and possibly Terry Francona. Lou Pinella may be a consideration if the Cubs continue to do well this season.
GM's, Schuerholtz and Cashman.
np
17 Jul 08
Originally posted by neonpeon41While I agree that Schilling will probably get in because of his post season work, I don't think you can compare him with either Smoltz or Glavine. Glavine won 300 games, and made loads of post season appearances. Smoltz won 200 games and saved 150 (I believe he is the only person to do that?). Schilling isn't very close to either of them, in my mind.
Schilling has had enough big moments in the post season to guarantee his entry. If Smoltz or Glavine get in (and I think they will) then Schilling is in as well.
Just an opinion.
17 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by uzlessAre you kidding??? Halladay only has 122 wins! And he's already 31; in all probability, he won't make 200 wins. Get serious.
he was robbed, robbed i tells ya.
At some point, if you keep winning cy youngs you have to be put in the Hall i'd say. I mean, what else is there left for Halladay to do in order to get into the Hall?
If he'd been playing on Boston or NY and won 2 or 3 rings, everyone would be saying Hall of Fame, but because he's with the Gays he gets snubbed??
Doesn't seem right
How about Mike Mussina who has 261 wins and still might have a shot at 300?
Did anybody mention Randy Johnson? EDIT: Yes they did.
17 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by PocketKingsYou have to be kidding about Moyer. He is a one time allstar. He never finished top 3 in the Cy young voting. He won more than 15 games in a season only 3 times.
There is unfortunately some Schilling talk. But here in Philly we say that Jamie Moyer has more wins. Moyer has piled up some big stats in his 50 years in the majors.
Schilling (who I can't stand and whose career path makes him a strong performance enhancing suspect... unless you think guys suddenly become better when they hit the age of 34) was the runner up in the Cy Young voting 3 times, an all star 6 times. won 21+ plus games 3 times. Schilling has a .597 career winning percentage a 10-2 post season record with a 2.23 post season ERA.
You can question the legitimacy of Schillings numbers but Moyer is not in his stratesophere.
17 Jul 08
Originally posted by darvlayNo, but you don't win a Cy young without having the stats to back it up. If you win 5 cy youngs, your stats by definition musta been damn good.
So winning the Cy Young is the only requirement for being a hall of fame pitcher?
While not neccessary, isn't it just obvious that if you win MVP multiple times that you should likely get in the hall...especially over guys that didn't win mvp?
17 Jul 08
Originally posted by no1marauderYou can't count wins...or championships. WINS for a pitcher are determined largely by how good your team is and how good the offense is.
Are you kidding??? Halladay only has 122 wins! And he's already 31; in all probability, he won't make 200 wins. Get serious.
Halladay has suffered from an inept team. He would have WAY MORE wins if he played on a better team.
To discount his credentials solely on wins is pathetic.
17 Jul 08
2 edits
Originally posted by uzlessPlease name a starting pitcher in the Hall of Fame with 122 wins.
You can't count wins...or championships. WINS for a pitcher are determined largely by how good your team is and how good the offense is.
Halladay has suffered from an inept team. He would have WAY MORE wins if he played on a better team.
To discount his credentials solely on wins is pathetic.
Thank you.
"Pathetic" is homer fans thinking anybody on their team who is above mediocre deserve to be in the HOF. Tim Hudson has better career numbers than Halladay (and Halladay's teams have been good hitting teams that were above .500; hardly "inept".)
17 Jul 08
Originally posted by GalaxyShieldI'm a huge Braves fan so I'm quite familiar with Glavine and Smoltz. I'm not advocating that Schilling is a better pitcher than the other two. I think those two have much better regular season stats and for a while Smoltz actually held the record for most post-season wins. Schilling actually has about six more wins, but not as many saves as Smoltz. All three have over 3,000 K's as well. Smoltz has one Cy Young, Glavine has two, and Schilling has none, but as we've seen with Nolan Ryan this doesn't mean he isn't in.
While I agree that Schilling will probably get in because of his post season work, I don't think you can compare him with either Smoltz or Glavine. Glavine won 300 games, and made loads of post season appearances. Smoltz won 200 games and saved 150 (I believe he is the only person to do that?). Schilling isn't very close to either of them, in my mind.
Just an opinion.
I brought up the post season success because while Glavine and Smoltz have made the WS 5 times with a 1-4 record and one series MVP, Schilling is 3-1 in the WS (wins 2001, 2004, 2007, loss 1993) with a shared series MVP with Randy Johnson. I think these are the sorts of things voters will remember, especially the whole bloody sock episode. Right or wrong, I think that's what gets Schilling in the HoF.
I definitely think that Glavine, Maddux, and Smoltz will be in. It is possible all three could retire this season, although I think Maddux will continue. I think it would be cool to watch an induction ceremony where all three enter at the same time.
np
17 Jul 08
Originally posted by irontigranLongevity does not equal greatness. It just means he's been healthy a long time. When I look at pitchers in the HoF I think of dominance. There was at least one time in each of their careers where batters were scared to face them. Moyer has never had that kind of reputation as a lights out type of pitcher. Even though he has won 20 games or more a couple of times he's not led the league in K's or ERA. While he has good stuff, it's just not HoF caliber. He's still over 800 K's short of 3,000. I would take him on my team, not as staff ace. I don't think he's in.
do you know how many times moyer as thrown 200+(innings) in a season?
[b]10 times, with last year being less than an inning short of this 11th. thats true production people, i really think he should go in.. i went to the park to see him pitch many times, he never disappointed, even if the mariners didnt win he was fun to watch[/b]
np
17 Jul 08
Originally posted by no1marauderI think both are in.
How about Pedro Martinez? 3 CY Youngs, over 3000 strikeouts, the best winning percentage in history (I think) and a 2.86 lifetime ERA. Is he out because he has only 212 wins?
Andy Petitte has 211 wins and an 18-7 post season mark. Does he have a shot?
np
17 Jul 08
Pedro is a definite but Pettitte has work to do. Pettitte has played on great hitting teams and always won a lot of games but only 2 all star appearances only one top 3 cy young finish to go along with too big a role in the Mitchell report would likely doom him if his career ended today.