Debates
10 Sep 21
@no1marauder saidEasy. Infringement on the Freedom and Liberty of our citizens. Are you going to just ignore that. Yes, you are. I have said for a year that you guys have NEVER written the words Freedom, Liberty and Independence. The includes you, Marauder.
Why don't you take the slightest amount of time to do some actual research on a subject before shooting your ignorant mouth off about it?
Congress created OSHA by law to protect the safety of workers engaged in and/or affected by interstate commerce.
OSHA is an agency that is part of the Executive Branch.
The President, in this case Joe Biden, is the head of the ...[text shortened]... hey are tested on a weekly basis.
What about this don't you understand besides almost everything?
You need to take your computer into a closet when no one is looking and do a bit of research. I think it was some people in England that were trying to take away freedoms, which gave rise to what ended up as the United States of America . You could start there. Osha had nothing to do with it. BTW, OSHA does not Trump freedom. Or, maybe you think it does?
Me=ignorant. Marauder=To Hell With Freedom.
Next you will agree with Biden if he fines us for coughing near other people. I am serious. He could do that in a heartbeat, and you would agree with it.
13 Sep 21
@no1marauder saidGriswold versus Connecticut showed that the U.S. government cannot take away the personal rights of health care in individuals unless there's some type of compelling and substantial reason, and then it has to be put into law. It can't come out of the executive branch.
Why don't you take the slightest amount of time to do some actual research on a subject before shooting your ignorant mouth off about it?
Congress created OSHA by law to protect the safety of workers engaged in and/or affected by interstate commerce.
OSHA is an agency that is part of the Executive Branch.
The President, in this case Joe Biden, is the head of the ...[text shortened]... hey are tested on a weekly basis.
What about this don't you understand besides almost everything?
13 Sep 21
@averagejoe1 saidThere is no "freedom or liberty" right to infect others with deadly diseases.
Easy. Infringement on the Freedom and Liberty of our citizens. Are you going to just ignore that. Yes, you are. I have said for a year that you guys have NEVER written the words Freedom, Liberty and Independence. The includes you, Marauder.
You need to take your computer into a closet when no one is looking and do a bit of research. I think it was some people ...[text shortened]... ing near other people. I am serious. He could do that in a heartbeat, and you would agree with it.
There never has been.
@metal-brain saidGriswold v. Connecticut, has the name implies, had nothing to do with the US government.
Griswold versus Connecticut showed that the U.S. government cannot take away the personal rights of health care in individuals unless there's some type of compelling and substantial reason, and then it has to be put into law. It can't come out of the executive branch.
OSHA was created by law to protect the safety of workers engaged in or affected by interstate commerce. Regulation of such commerce is expressly authorized by the US Constitution, Article I, sec. 8.
For example, here's OSHA regulations regarding ladders: https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.23
I ask again if OSHA can make regulations regarding the use of ladders by workers engaged in or affected by interstate commerce to protect their safety, what principle bars them from making regulations regarding measures to reduce the spread of a deadly, contagious disease among workers engaged in the same?
13 Sep 21
@averagejoe1 saidHere's a woman who exercised her "freedom" and "liberty" to cough in someone else's face. https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2020/07/31/woman-charged-assault-debra-hunter-shopper-coughed-jacksonville-sheriffs-office/5559272002/
Easy. Infringement on the Freedom and Liberty of our citizens. Are you going to just ignore that. Yes, you are. I have said for a year that you guys have NEVER written the words Freedom, Liberty and Independence. The includes you, Marauder.
You need to take your computer into a closet when no one is looking and do a bit of research. I think it was some people ...[text shortened]... ing near other people. I am serious. He could do that in a heartbeat, and you would agree with it.
13 Sep 21
1 edit
@no1marauder saidIt has to be put into law.
Griswold v. Connecticut, has the name implies, had nothing to do with the US government.
OSHA was created by law to protect the safety of workers engaged in or affected by interstate commerce. Regulation of such commerce is expressly authorized by the US Constitution, Article I, sec. 8.
For example, here's OSHA regulations regarding ladders: https://www.osha ...[text shortened]... ing measures to reduce the spread of a deadly, contagious disease among workers engaged in the same?
It can't come out of the executive branch.
13 Sep 21
@Metal-Brain
Funny, those exec orders have been given out for over a hundred years like the vax mandates in 1921 or the mandate to upgrade railroad car couplers which in century 19 was cheap and dangerous.
Those orders brought the railroad industry in the US up to world wide standards.
So your line is BULL. You need REALLY need to take political science 101.
14 Sep 21
@sonhouse saidThose were vaccines.
@Metal-Brain
Funny, those exec orders have been given out for over a hundred years like the vax mandates in 1921 or the mandate to upgrade railroad car couplers which in century 19 was cheap and dangerous.
Those orders brought the railroad industry in the US up to world wide standards.
So your line is BULL. You need REALLY need to take political science 101.
The gene vaccines are treatments, not vaccines.
14 Sep 21
@Metal-Brain
Whatever you say oh master of all things logic.
Do they let you draw with crayons in your institution?
14 Sep 21
1 edit
@metal-brain saidDoes every regulation by OSHA, an agency specifically created by law to protect the safety of workers engaged in or affected by interstate commerce, have to be passed by Congress?
It has to be put into law.
It can't come out of the executive branch.
Of course not.
14 Sep 21
@no1marauder saidYou are slipping. Lawyer?
Here's a woman who exercised her "freedom" and "liberty" to cough in someone else's face. https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2020/07/31/woman-charged-assault-debra-hunter-shopper-coughed-jacksonville-sheriffs-office/5559272002/
Anyway, there are many types of assault, battery, whatever, that violate laws that are in place. If someone coughs at someone as you point out, she or he has violated, broken the law. She should face charges, I hope she does time.
So, I don't get your point, admittedly I just could not read the link , I am too busy on YouTube with the Black Anthem right now. But the authoritarianism of a president, that I know you are disappointed in, is the issue. My 'cough' post, and you know it, was a demonstrative example of the way government makes laws. Guess the example confused you?
14 Sep 21
@metal-brain saidCommerce clause and OSHA obviously apply, Mr. Arm-Chair lawyer.
It has to be put into law.
It can't come out of the executive branch.
Certainly, this is a unique executive order, no one disagrees with that, but there is historical precedent for sweeping public health measures. Other than the Jacobson case, which ruled in favor of mandates at the state level, I haven't seen a whole lot of court precedent here.
Perhaps we need a new constitutional amendment limiting executive power?
14 Sep 21
1 edit
@averagejoe1 saidI'm not "confused" at all. The point, which flew over your empty head, was that one's "freedom" and "liberty" are often constrained by the law when they endanger others. This is exactly what those who refuse to be vaccinated are doing when they work with others, so the Biden administration's decision to have OSHA issue regulations to protect workers' safety from this danger is little different from arresting someone who coughs in another's face.
You are slipping. Lawyer?
Anyway, there are many types of assault, battery, whatever, that violate laws that are in place. If someone coughs at someone as you point out, she or he has violated, broken the law. She should face charges, I hope she does time.
So, I don't get your point, admittedly I just could not read the link , I am too busy on YouTube with the ...[text shortened]... w it, was a demonstrative example of the way government makes laws. Guess the example confused you?
14 Sep 21
@metal-brain saidDo you think the courts are going to make decisions based on the science of vaccines?
Those were vaccines.
The gene vaccines are treatments, not vaccines.
14 Sep 21
@no1marauder saidSo you, a smart guy, are OK with govt power, real power, over free citizens ? Do you think it will stop after this, or will future presidents, with these precedents, really crank it up when the next problem comes along. People with natural immunity , or who have had covid, or who are vaccinated, cannot catch it. That number grows every day. So you want to give Presidents more and more power, a typical liberal....and trade freedom , in exchange for people who won’t priotect themselves with vax. Frankly Marauder, liberal whiners are REAL sensitive, but I am here to tell you that the atmosphere of al, this is not an emergency. Libs get frantic over every dam thing. Take it easy.
I'm not "confused" at all. The point, which flew over your empty head, was that one's "freedom" and "liberty" are often constrained by the law when they endanger others. This is exactly what those who refuse to be vaccinated are doing when they work with others, so the Biden administration's decision to have OSHA issue regulations to protect workers' safety from this danger is little different from arresting someone who coughs in another's face.
Here are about 5 hurdles to chew on...thank god they are there,
1. The equal protection component of the 5th amendment.
2.Tenth amendment.. power reserved to the States. I know that is a toughy for libs, who want federal elections, federal everything.
3. Separation of powers, the doctrine
4 Federal laws,....religious objections, preexisting conditions, and try to prove that this is an emergency. This will all be old news in a few months, and then we can turn our attention to Biden, who will be leaving.
I can’t remember the 5th one.