23 May 07
1 edit
Originally posted by MerkI wasn't implying that the Paleos inncocents were the targets. That's an interpretation, which probably comes from a habit of interpreting Israeli actions as actions targetting civilians. Fair enough.
Yes there is. Paleo refugees are beeing bombarded with arty. The press says al-Fatah positions, on the outskirts of the camp, are being bombarded after al-Fatah opened fire on the Lebanese army. That is to say, the refugees are not a deliberate target, though they tend to get caught in the cross-fire. Well, the army would say that--that's why facts need to emerge to judge whether they acted with excessive force or not.
It's normal for ambulances in Palistan to haul gunnies and ammo. If you recall, during Paleo Civil War I, Hamas and Fatah would both not allow them into certain areas. If Israel hit one that was legit, we should at least be willing to consider that they didn't target it just because it was an ambulance.
Yes, but we're talking about Lebanon
Oh please. The reason it's not stirring up fuss is because it's muzzie on muzzie.
You don't know too much about the demographics of Lebanon, it seems. The group being targeted was responsible for bomb attacks in Christian areas. Lebanon has never been "muzzies against muzzies".
Lebanon is asking for US aid in this regard. How much will they get, I wonder? Perhaps Israel could forward some. A stronger Lebanon would make for a much more secure region...
23 May 07
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage"The press says al-Fatah positions, on the outskirts of the camp, are being bombarded after al-Fatah opened fire on the Lebanese army. That is to say, the refugees are not a deliberate target, though they tend to get caught in the cross-fire. Well, the army would say that--that's why facts need to emerge to judge whether they acted with excessive force or not."
[b]I wasn't implying that the Paleos inncocents were the targets. That's an interpretation, which probably comes from a habit of interpreting Israeli actions as actions targetting civilians. Fair enough.
Yes there is. Paleo refugees are beeing bombarded with arty. The press says al-Fatah positions, on the outskirts of the camp, are being ...[text shortened]... l could forward some. A stronger Lebanon would make for a much more secure region... [/b]
Sorry. Thought the following tidbit was in the addy I posted. It's actuall in this one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6678941.stm
"A UN aid convoy which entered the Nahr al-Bared camp in northern Lebanon has been forced to leave after shells exploded near its vehicles."
"The Lebanese army and members of the militant group Fatah al-Islam, who are inside the camp, have been exchanging heavy fire for a third day. "
This looks like arty in the camp to me.
"You don't know too much about the demographics of Lebanon, it seems. The group being targeted was responsible for bomb attacks in Christian areas. Lebanon has never been "muzzies against muzzies"."
That is a good point, Lebanon is the regional religious melting pot, but are you sure this isn't seen as muzzie on muzzie? At the very least, it's seen as Arab on Arab. I htink it's only fair to recognize that the west doesn't seem to care who kills who in the region, as long as it's not America or Israel.
"Lebanon is asking for US aid in this regard. How much will they get, I wonder? Perhaps Israel could forward some. A stronger Lebanon would make for a much more secure region..."
The U.S. openly supports the Lebanese government. Largely due to its attempts to hold back the Hezzies. Strategically speaking, we don't care if Lebanon is strong or not. What we care about is it being stable and not a safe haven.
23 May 07
Originally posted by MerkThe bombing of the refugee camp is absolutely disgusting.
Or does the left only scream about Paleo refugee camps getting hit when its the Israelis doing it?
http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2007/05/terrorists_usin.php
The Lebanese are pounding a Paleo camp and nobody here has said a word. I find it hard to believe that you would be silent if the Joos were doing this exact same thing.
What say you? Would any ...[text shortened]... to pretend that you're not just wearing a pro-Palestinian mask to cover your anti-Israeli face?
Once again it's indiscriminate justice being dealt to a group; illegal.
Slightly reminicant of 1982, I may add.
23 May 07
Originally posted by MerkI seriously doubt anyone's better in bed than me. 😠
You're as bad as Shavixmir. Maybe worse--because you're better at it."
But what the hell have I got to do with anything? Don't I generally back up my arguments with articles and things? (except when I'm on a bender of hate)
23 May 07
Originally posted by shavixmirSo if I'm doing my math correctly, the count is up to 1.
The bombing of the refugee camp is absolutely disgusting.
Once again it's indiscriminate justice being dealt to a group; illegal.
Slightly reminicant of 1982, I may add.
1 person that actually cares about the Paleos.
23 May 07
Originally posted by MerkI think that part of the problem is exactly that.
So if I'm doing my math correctly, the count is up to 1.
1 person that actually cares about the Paleos.
All the Arab leaders use the plight of the palestinians in their propaganda, but nothing practical to help apart from blood money to keep the pot boiling.
The Arab Countries ill intentions towards the Israelis gave Israel the excuse it wanted to kick the Palestinians into refugee camps and illegally occupy Palestinian lands.
1/3 of Bin Laden's speechs are all about the Palestinians, but the last thing he really wants is a resolution of the problem.
23 May 07
Originally posted by MerkDon't be silly.
So if I'm doing my math correctly, the count is up to 1.
1 person that actually cares about the Paleos.
Me for one have just come home and it's only by a fluke I have enough time to get online.
I'm sure my comrades will be falling over themselves to verbally bash you as soon as they can.
23 May 07
1 edit
Originally posted by shavixmirI look forward to it. It will be nice to see if others do care. The mainstream press doesn't, that's for sure.
Don't be silly.
Me for one have just come home and it's only by a fluke I have enough time to get online.
I'm sure my comrades will be falling over themselves to verbally bash you as soon as they can.
As an interesting side note, I buy my cigars from a local cigar shop owned by a Palestinian who moved here to go to school in 1988. We have alot of great discussions about the ME. He should be getting in a box of Helix Maduro Cylinders (Normally I'm a Montecristo guy, I just wanted to try the Helix) for me today so I am looking forward to stopping in to talk to him about this.
23 May 07
Originally posted by MerkThe Palestinians in general and the Palestinian refugees in particular are merely a pawn in the hands of rabiate anti-Israel Arab (Syria) and non-Arab (Iran) regimes . They are being used as a tool to instigate violence and chaos in the Middle East in order to further the political and military interests of these regimes. The victims of these policies are first of all the Palestinians themselves, Libanon and Israel.
What say you? Would any of you that call yourself pro-Palestinian at least like to pretend that you're not just wearing a pro-Palestinian mask to cover your anti-Israeli face?
The libs hardly ever make an attempt to analyse the actual situation as it is. They are merely using the Palestinians in the same disgusting way. As long as they are a suitable issue to bash the Americans and Israel they are interesting, if not ... oh well .....
The Lebanese government has decided to act. In this case it is Syria whose detrimental influence in Libanon they try to limit.
23 May 07
Originally posted by SoothfastHere it is ... the usual uninteresting rubbish not based on any serious analyses of the facts aimed at the truth and the quest for peace, but merely based on the narrow minded ideological need to bash Israel.
I think Lebanon has learned by now that if it doesn't put on a good show of carnage and massacre for Israel, then Israel will start bombing Lebanon just for kicks. One should recall the pretext for Israel's last savage thrust into Lebanon less than a year ago. You know, the claim that Lebanon wasn't doing enough against Hezbollah etc. etc. That claim.
.... "just for kicks" ..... really ....
Give the kid an icecream .....
23 May 07
Originally posted by ivanhoeIt's a viable hypothesis, actually. Lebanon was ravaged last year by an utterly unhinged Israeli military bombardment. Now we see Lebanon exhibiting what could be characterized as classic "transferred aggression", wherein a beaten animal vents its frustration by seeking out and abusing an even weaker creature. Israel is very much a terrorist state, as has doubtless been observed in these parts countless times; but Israel is also a client state of the U.S. Empire, and so the acolytes of empire encounter difficulty perceiving facts in an objective fashion.
Here it is ... the usual uninteresting rubbish not based on any serious analyses of the facts aimed at the truth and the quest for peace, but merely based on the narrow minded ideological need to bash Israel.
.... "just for kicks" ..... really ....
Give the kid an icecream .....
To get back on track here, what Lebanon is doing to the Palestinian refugees is barbaric and intolerable. But I think I know what is motivating Lebanon's actions: fear of another attack by Israel on the pretext that Lebanon isn't doing enough to stem the actions of terrorists. This is Lebanon's way of saying "Hey Israel, look at us: we can exterminate people just as slick as you, so there's no need for you to cross the border to 'help out.'" It's a show being put on for Israel. That's the way I read it. Can I prove it? Of course not. It's an opinion. The mainstream media will manufacture their own facts in accordance to the dictates of their prejudices and corporate masters.
23 May 07
Originally posted by SoothfastThere's one not so slight problem with that supposed motivation, The Israelis attacked the Hezzies, the Lebanese aren't. This does Israel no favor at all.
It's a viable hypothesis, actually. Lebanon was ravaged last year by an utterly unhinged Israeli military bombardment. Now we see Lebanon exhibiting what could be characterized as classic "transferred aggression", wherein a beaten animal vents its frustration by seeking out and abusing an even weaker creature. Israel is very much a terrorist state, as has ...[text shortened]... own facts in accordance to the dictates of their prejudices and corporate masters.
23 May 07
Did you know that only Jordan and Israel has allowed a path to citizenship for refugees of the '47 war? All other "palestinians" are instututionalized refugees by decree. No Muslim nation except Jordan allows a path to citizenship.
I thought that Musims were a religion of love. Maybe it is just "self love" within the tribe???
23 May 07
Originally posted by MerkI didn't realize that's what you were asking.
So if I'm doing my math correctly, the count is up to 1.
1 person that actually cares about the Paleos.
Yes, I'm very sad for all the people who've been blown to bits. The world is a vale of tears.
What's worse--the Lebanese army's action or the behaviour of al-Fatah members hiding behind human shields? In their own country, there might be some justification for that...but living in Lebanon, well, they are immediately responsible for the deaths of their own people--as the PLO seems to have recognised.
What an awful idea...reforming refugee camps along the lines of sharia law--at gun-point, no doubt. From what I gather, al-Fatah include a number of gangsters.
Ugh. I'm going to watch a cowboy fillum.
23 May 07
Originally posted by Bosse de NageThe thing other thing that screms hypocrisy to me is that the PLO is recognizing the nastiness of hiding among refugees only in this case where the people hiding have broken from the PLO.
I didn't realize that's what you were asking.
Yes, I'm very sad for all the people who've been blown to bits. The world is a vale of tears.
What's worse--the Lebanese army's action or the behaviour of al-Fatah members hiding behind human shields? In their own country, there might be some justification for that...but living in Lebanon, well, they ...[text shortened]... her, al-Fatah include a number of gangsters.
Ugh. I'm going to watch a cowboy fillum.
Is this PLO revenge or a sign of a new PLO?