Fantasies

First I was about to post this in response to Dottewell in the clan forum's "adult uncensored clan [forum]" thread, but then realised I had promised not to. If you need to know what discussion led up to here, I suggest you go read that thread from page 20 something like that.

Although originally about sexual fantasies, and some of them forbidden such as pedophilia and rape, it became more general (not for dotte, but for me), and I'm curious to see what others think. Don't worry, I'll use no offensive language.

Dottewell first wrote something about seeing the difference between certain states of fantasy (or however I should put it, he should really explain it himself or I may do him injustice), then he edited the post to say: Never mind (because he also was tired of the discussion I suppse, or he really doesn't think I get it).

And why I'm taking it here is because this is definitely a debatable and serious enough subject which I think is worthy of it's own thread. I hope you people don't consider it spamming or bannable because I'm serious about this.

Here's what I wanted to reply:

Originally posted by Dottewell
Never mind

Just to make sure it's understood, as your post was first about the a, b and c below, I realise perfectly well the difference between the following:

A) Having a forbidden sexual fantasy but not really wanting to act on it (other than maybe in a roleplay between consenting adults), and...
B) ...having a fsf that is really hard to shake and which urges you to act on it (in which case you should seek help), and...
C) ...having a fantasy of type two and having acted on it (in which case you should be apprehended and sentenced in court most definitely)

See? I do get what you're talking about. I just think that the three applies to any fantasy, no matter how dark it is by nature. There is no difference between fantasising about consentual sex between adults or with children as long as the fantasy remain in category A.

The real question is, how could anyone fantasise about sex with little children and get sexually aroused? That's sick! Is it not? Then again, from this link:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19950501-000028.html

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"I couldn't even tell my husband," recalls Beth, a gentle West Coast mother of three, after experiencing vivid thoughts about hurting her own children. "I spent a lot of time asking myself, 'What does this mean? Am I sick?'

[...]

Forbidden thoughts may prevent us from committing heinous crimes and other regrettable acts. They may help us to survive as participants in an intricate social dance. But they can also serve as a means of undermining ourselves, of seeing ourselves in a primarily negative light. In the end, the most damaging "forbidden" thought, the one we have been trained to block at every turn, may simply be that we are really okay. "Most of us have had some pretty off-the-wall thoughts, and when we question ourselves, to some extent that's part of the mental health process," says Seattle therapist Michael Donnen. "But we have to learn to be gentle on ourselves."

-------------------

I claim that the nature of a fantasy is not really relevant, but how the person having the fantasy feels about it, and then how (s)he's handling it. That's the debating issue.

And, finally, the reason I think this is an important topic is that there are in fact rapists, pedophiles, murderers and what not in the real world, which we read about everyday. I'm very curious about what actually drives a person to such extremes. I have my own little theory (partially supported in the linked article above) that it has to do with having these fantasies, suppressing them out of shame and then eventually crack when the opportunity presents itself. That may be to simplify things, but am I the only one who thinks there should be a clear difference between acting on a fantasy and just admitting to yourself you have such a fantasy (if you do)?

I'm not reading that crap but I'm posting anyway. If you want you can have some sort of fantasy that there is intelligent discourse here. Of course when you wake up in a urine soaked sleeping bag under an overbridge don't blame me.

If you really must do this, this is what I said:

Look, it's pretty simple. One the one hand you have people you want to call "rape fantasists", but who are in fact consenting adults who are engaging in domination and who, IF AT ANY TIME THEY THOUGHT THE OTHER DID NOT WANT TO BE INVOLVED, would stop. That is not, to my mind, a "rape fantasy". Then you have people who could accurately be called "rape fantasists", who think seriously about commiting the act, imagine what it would be like, want to do it etc., and who clearly need help even though - because of the definition of the term - you could not accurately refer to as rapists. Then you have rapists, who actually commit rape.

"Paedophile fantasists", on the other hand, can accurately be called paedophiles, whatever acts they do or do not commit.

If you read your old posts, you will see that you seem to think the important question is whether someone commits the act or not. Well, to some extent; but it is equally important whether someone is actually thinking about the act, or something quite different which is basically a consensual matter between self-aware and mutually-aware adults.

[EDIT: I'm quite happy for all this, and the other thread, to be deleted. It seems perfectly obvious.]

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
Of course when you wake up in a urine soaked sleeping bag under an overbridge don't blame me.

Originally posted by dottewell
One the one hand you have people you want to call "rape fantasists", but who are in fact consenting adults who are engaging in domination and who, IF AT ANY TIME THEY THOUGHT THE OTHER DID NOT WANT TO BE INVOLVED, would stop.

Originally posted by stocken
No, those are not necessarily the ones I talk about. I myself belong to that group. What you're now talking about is a way to act on rape fantasies (that's what they are at the core, if you think about it) that should be socially accepted because noone actually gets hurt. It's a form of roleplay that ends as soon as the given word is spoken, and which upports my idea that fantasies are not in themselves bad, but the acting on them are.

My list:

Coconut: Pedophile
Stoken: Closet Rapist

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
My list:

Coconut: Pedophile
Stoken: Closet Rapist

Originally posted by Palynka
Strange fantasies.

Originally posted by dottewell
Do not tell me what I was talking about. I was completely clear. No one, other than the mentally ill, fantasise about anything like actual rape.

Do you know anyone who has been raped? Can you try to understand what they go through?

Please, take this discussion to your private forum. It's actually becoming quite revolting now.

Originally posted by dottewell
This is not a time for trying to be clever. This is a time for aggressive finger-pointing, and possibly the odd expletive.

Originally posted by dottewell
This is not a time for trying to be clever. This is a time for aggressive finger-pointing, and possibly the odd expletive.

Originally posted by stocken
It is my experience that when someone feels targeted (for whatever reason) they want the talking to end. If that fails they start pointing in other directions to remove attention from themselves.

But, of course, that's not what's happening here, is it? You just want another silly name-calling debate that doesn't lead to anything constructive.

I'm too tired and too irritated to actually do that, so I'll leave you to it. Have fun.

Originally posted by Palynka
We don't know the extent of his fantasies and from what he told about them, I don't think it's that serious. They seem quite alike some porn scripts and not really about rape in reality.